FRS vs 50k Lexus

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

This proof-of-concept from Toyota engineers was good enough to convince the Subaru guys that maybe a RWD, N/A coupe could fly (previously, the mindset seemed fixated on AWD/Turbocharged).

In fact, Subaru was correct from the begining. They knew that the car needed at least a turbo. This is what you have to do if you want by today's standards a fast car . Toyota wanted something else... oh well the rest is history.

Originally Posted by daiheadjai

Not to turn this into a Toyota vs Subaru thing, but despite Subaru's rally pedigree, Toyota has been involved in a much wider range of racing ventures (some of them, successfully!), such as JGTC, CART/Indy, NASCAR, WRC, Le Mans (we'll ignore F1).

I am not saying they don't have their own racing history. All I am saying is that they were many years outside of the sports car segment, so they wanted alliances. Even now, they still looking for alliances. So, look what we have now:

GT86: manufactured by Subaru
Supra: manufactured by BMW
S-FR: manufactured (probably) by Mazda

Easy way to make quick money. Don't you think?

[Cole]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

In fact, Subaru was correct from the begining. They knew that the car needed at least a turbo. This is what you have to do if you want by today's standards a fast car . Toyota wanted something else... oh well the rest is history.



I am not saying they don't have their own racing history. All I am saying is that they were many years outside of the sports car segment, so they wanted alliances. Even now, they still looking for alliances. So, look what we have now:

GT86: manufactured by Subaru
Supra: manufactured by BMW
S-FR: manufactured (probably) by Mazda

Easy way to make quick money. Don't you think?

Or it's an easy way to take risks in a North American market that sees Toyota as a beige-mobile company. Not to mention, anyone buying a twin and thinking it's a fast car is certainly buying the wrong car. This was never meant to be a fast car.

Not to mention, if you have other companies building cars for you, you don't need to hire a bunch of employees and build new factories. Isn't that one of the reasons that the twins are built in Gunma? That plant had the space available, did it not?

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I was referring basically on the very soft suspension setting of the previous generation. It could be fixed with a few changes and STI knew how to do it.

The only niggle I have with that is that in the original guise, the FRS/GT86 (basically the Toyota versions) were setup with stiffer rear springs to bring out more oversteer. The Subaru had softer rears and promote a more neutral, planted (and according to many sources, more understeer-oriented) handling.

But apparently the market either didn't want, or were unable to handle the oversteer-prone nature of the first gen FRS/86, which meant subsequent generations moved towards the Subaru end of the spectrum.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

In fact, Subaru was correct from the begining. They knew that the car needed at least a turbo. This is what you have to do if you want by today's standards a fast car . Toyota wanted something else... oh well the rest is history.

I think you've identified the difference in philosophy.
Subaru is used to making rally-bred AWD monsters, whereas Toyota sports cars tend to value handling and feel over outright speed and power (exceptions: the Supra and GT4/All-trac models).

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I am not saying they don't have their own racing history. All I am saying is that they were many years outside of the sports car segment, so they wanted alliances. Even now, they still looking for alliances. So, look what we have now:

GT86: manufactured by Subaru
Supra: manufactured by BMW
S-FR: manufactured (probably) by Mazda

Easy way to make quick money. Don't you think?

No doubt about it - it would be nice if Toyota would build the car themselves from scratch.
But unfortunately, in the stock price-driven corporate world we live in, Toyota would be taken to the woodshed by investors if they diverted resources away from high-volume or high-margin bread-and-butter models to cobble together a niche, low volume (and likely low-margin) model like the Toyobaru, or even the FT-1/Supra.

I'd love to see the return of Toyota's in-house sports-car chops, but I recognize that we're fortunate to even get a sports car with bespoke chassis (totally different from selling a hot version of a mass-market econobox like the Fiesta/Focus/Civic).
Hell, if the prophets are correct, we'll all be shuttling around in autonomous/anonymous pods soon, so we better take what we can get.

[humdizzle]

I wish there was something similar to the FRS in fun factor (6spd, rwd) but just more luxurious and quieter on the inside.

Something in between a Jag F type and the FRS for about 35-40k used...

[Braces]

Originally Posted by humdizzle

I wish there was something similar to the FRS in fun factor (6spd, rwd) but just more luxurious and quieter on the inside.

Something in between a Jag F type and the FRS for about 35-40k used...

Used Corvettes.

I used to own a C5 convertible. Extremely fun to toss around.

Gold chains and dew rag optional.

[krayzie]

The more I read about the past the more interesting it gets.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1-xgyAzJEs"]トヨタ 新セリカXX CM (1981) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHom6i96e_8"]CAR GRAPHIC TV #0197 19881112 WRCサンレモラリー - YouTube[/ame]



Now all the kids wish this engine compartment is the new twin lol!

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by humdizzle

I wish there was something similar to the FRS in fun factor (6spd, rwd) but just more luxurious and quieter on the inside.

Something in between a Jag F type and the FRS for about 35-40k used...

Funny that you mention it because there are so few lightweight 2+2's being manufactured at any price (that's kind of how unique the 86 is).



If you can stretch to $45k a 2010 - 2012 Lotus Evora is the answer (btw it's also one of the only other lightweight 2+2 RWD + 6MT on the market). The blue one above is in Colorado.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...searchRadius=0

[MJones_RB]

Toyota's MR2 was as close as they got to a real sports car, with the turbo mid engine design, sport seats, suspension, light weight and sleek design. Sure, the Supra was a better and faster car, but also twice it's size and weight, and 2x as expensive. The MR2 was a Ferrari for the common man. If only Toyota had developed it further, instead of turning it into the MR-S.

[Riftur]

This post went off into the wrong direction. I know they are completely different cars. That wasn't what I was saying. I was just saying that I enjoy driving the FR-S way more than the 50k Luxury car. I love driving my car and am so glad to have it back.

[humdizzle]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Funny that you mention it because there are so few lightweight 2+2's being manufactured at any price (that's kind of how unique the 86 is).



If you can stretch to $45k a 2010 - 2012 Lotus Evora is the answer (btw it's also one of the only other lightweight 2+2 RWD + 6MT on the market). The blue one above is in Colorado.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...searchRadius=0
g[/IMG]

forgot about those. but at 45k you might as well get a 2nd gen cayman. I would go 1st gen but they are so ugly i couldn't do it.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by humdizzle

forgot about those. but at 45k you might as well get a 2nd gen cayman. I would go 1st gen but they are so ugly i couldn't do it.

That was kind of my point, Cayman's are 2 seaters, the Evora is a 2+2 and the only other modern MT, RWD, lightweight 2+2 sports car that comes to my less than sharp mind. For a DD, those jump seats do help A LOT.

[SquadRon]

Originally Posted by Riftur

So I recently watched a video about a guy who did a lot of youtube video's about mods on his FRS. He said he recently got rid of it for a 50k luxury car and couldn't be happier. He said his life is different now. I am around the same age as him, have kids and pretty much close to the same life. I recently got rear ended (very minor damage) and had to have my car repaired. During the repair the Lexus Shop the work was done at put scratches all over my bumper. So they had to fix it and gave me a Fully loaded 2016 Lexus GS 350 F SPORT to drive for the week. I wont lie that the car was like driving around in my recliner. One of the most comfortable cars I ever drove. Was fast also. It was totally boring though even in sport mode. Once I got my FRS back I loved it even more and knew I bought the right car. My smiles were back. Just wanted to share.

I like the color!

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1TTc_UUbuI"]South Park Prius thanks! - YouTube[/ame]

[dhuang]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

If you can stretch to $45k a 2010 - 2012 Lotus Evora is the answer (btw it's also one of the only other lightweight 2+2 RWD + 6MT on the market). The blue one above is in Colorado.

Do not get one of these. After my Evora test drive, I couldn't wait to get back into my FR-S. The only redeeming things that car has is the steering feel and exotic appearance.

[Shinigami301]

Originally Posted by MJones_RB

Toyota's MR2 was as close as they got to a real sports car, with the turbo mid engine design, sport seats, suspension, light weight and sleek design. Sure, the Supra was a better and faster car, but also twice it's size and weight, and 2x as expensive. The MR2 was a Ferrari for the common man. If only Toyota had developed it further, instead of turning it into the MR-S.

I still miss my Supercharged '88 MR2. I regularly humiliated much more expensive and pedigreed cars on Mulholland in the day. Ultimate ride in the canyons, until I started riding sport bikes anyway.