Perrin light wieght pulley

[nikitopo]

Guys ... regarding the pulley weight, you are mixing things. The factory pulley is heavy for driveability. It keeps the engine revs easier and it is more convenient for the average driver during gear shifting. It is true that if you have a light-weight pulley, then the revs fall faster. However, you also have better rev matching. As mentioned, in Boxer engines there is no component wear. We have many many users using these pulleys for more than a decade and with more than 135,000 miles in their engines. In fact the engine internals are stressed more with a heavier pulley. You have to imagine the car as a dynamic and complex system and not as a simplified system that just keeps a constant velocity.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Guys ... regarding the pulley weight, you are mixing things. The factory pulley is heavy for driveability. It keeps the engine revs easier and it is more convenient for the average driver during gear shifting. It is true that if you have a light-weight pulley, then the revs fall faster. However, you also have better rev matching. As mentioned, in Boxer engines there is no component wear. We have many many users using these pulleys for more than a decade and with more than 135,000 miles in their engines. In fact the engine internals are stressed more with a heavier pulley. You have to imagine the car as a dynamic and complex system and not as a simplified system that just keeps a constant velocity.

Quoted for posterity.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Quoted for posterity.

You can either respect the experience that was gathered by Subaru community after many years of checking (read for example NASIOC) or just ridicule the subject.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

You can either respect the experience that was gathered by Subaru community after many years of checking (read for example NASIOC) or just ridicule the subject.

OR you can believe what Infamous Performance has to say:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous Performance
We have seen bearing failures in as little as 2000 miles in EJ motors when combining a LWCP and a LWFW.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...lywheel&page=2

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

You can either respect the experience that was gathered by Subaru community after many years of checking (read for example NASIOC) or just ridicule the subject.

All machines experience component wear, hence the portion highlighted.

If you have devised away around this, you will make Bill Gates look poor. What is the name of the company you run that you are going to use to market this incredible new manufacturing process?

[Cole]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

You can either respect the experience that was gathered by Subaru community after many years of checking (read for example NASIOC) or just ridicule the subject.

Fact of the matter still remains that I'm personally always sketpical of a company who doesn't really have much info, other than their sales pitch and in house dynos. Remember, they'll tell you whatever they need to in order to sell you a product.

While I'm sure there are many people who run LWCP and such, there are still cases of engines failing with them installed. The fact that not many, if any at all third party research has been done, leaves me sketpical still. Surely a LWCP would be cheaper for a manufacturer to mass produce than the current pulley on my engine, no? I find it hard to believe that all these aftermarket companies have put in anywhere near the R&D that Subaru has for their OEM pulleys. If they're so absolutely safe to use, why not just slap on a LWCP from the get go and save a ton of money? Sure, there's the NVH argument, and the difficulty of driving with one for the average Joe, which you also mentioned. But if an OEM could save a ton of money on a single component, wouldn't they do it if a "balanced/damped" pulley wasn't necessary?

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

In fact the engine internals are stressed more with a heavier pulley..

Sorry , NOT a fact. This is called "conjecture".


I would argue the opposite that engine internals are stressed LESS with a heavier pulley as vibrations are REDUCED.


Using your logic: "Engine internals are stressed LESS with a lightened flywheel."
I am certain that most people who understand dynamics would call BS on that statement.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by justatroll

OR you can believe what Infamous Performance has to say:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous Performance
We have seen bearing failures in as little as 2000 miles in EJ motors when combining a LWCP and a LWFW.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...lywheel&page=2

They mixed a lightweight crank pulley with a lighter flywheel. We are talking here only about crank pulleys.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

All machines experience component wear, hence the portion highlighted.

If you have devised away around this, you will make Bill Gates look poor. What is the name of the company you run that you are going to use to market this incredible new manufacturing process?

I just don't like to take from a whole paragraph, a single sentence which is out of context and has an irrelevant meaning.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by justatroll

Using your logic: "Engine internals are stressed LESS with a lightened flywheel."
I am certain that most people who understand dynamics would call BS on that statement.

No, it is the opposite for the flywheel. Experience shown that a lighter flywheel will cause more issues Anyway, I won't insist more on this subject. I just offered some arguments.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Cole

But if an OEM could save a ton of money on a single component, wouldn't they do it if a "balanced/damped" pulley wasn't necessary?

Maybe they were forced to do it. It is not uncommon in automotive.

"If you don't do this or if you don't include so many parts from our country, then we will not let you sell your cars in our country".


Unfortunately it is a part of our world ...

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

No, it is the opposite for the flywheel. Experience shown that a lighter flywheel will cause more issues Anyway, I won't insist more on this subject. I just offered some arguments.

Yeah, we are asking for evidence to back up your arguments. What part of that aren't you getting?

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Let's say that they were forced to do it. It is not uncommon in automotive.

"If you don't do this or if you don't include so many parts from our country, then we will not let you sell your cars in our country".


Unfortunately it is a part of our world ...

Your incredibly weak anecdotal argument has already been anecdotally disproven with a simple argument.

"If a lighter pulley which is cheaper (HUGE in the OEM world) has no affect on long-term reliability, it would absolutely be used by the OEMs. Period."

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Yeah, we are asking for evidence to back up your arguments. What part of that aren't you getting?

I provided evidence. You just don't want to see it.

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Your incredibly weak anecdotal argument has already been anecdotally disproven with a simple argument.

"If a lighter pulley which is cheaper (HUGE in the OEM world) has no affect on long-term reliability, it would absolutely be used by the OEMs. Period."

We are talking here about Boxer engines. Don't generalize it again. The competitors have other issues.

Do you know that different Subaru models were banned for many years from Europe? An example was the Forester XT which was one of the state of the art vehicles. They could sell it before ..

[G-awesome]

I'm gonna enjoy this thread.

Got a perrin lightweight crank pulley last fall but never rushed to install it and it's sitting gather dust. It suuure looks pretty in red though!

Tried to install it once but it was a PITA getting the oem off an auto since you have to hold it in place while taking off the crank bolt. Debating whether I should just sell it or attempt it again in the near future...