2022 Acura Integra confirmed

[wbradley]

Integras were great cars. I had a 96 GS special edition 4dr and then a 99 coupe with same trim, both new and M5. Shied away from Type R since I wasnt prepared to deal with winter and summer tires at the time. The body styling is a lot more plain than the twins, but it will have some nice attributes for sure.

Assuming Honda turbo engines have low RPM peak torque and lowish redlines these days? Would be more fun with a high revving na engine with VTEC versus dream somethingorother.
It *should* be a hybrid but we aren't really seeing affordable hybrid or electric sports coupes yet, are we? Toyota has a clear path to increased electrification as does VW and the big three to some extent. Not sure regarding Honda except insight is a lousy seller.

[WolfpackS2k]

Honda already f*cked up trying a hybrid sporty/sports car once (CRZ) or twice (NSX?). Why the hell would you want this to be hybrid?

[dpfarr]

Was the nsx a failure?

[ayau]

Originally Posted by dpfarr

Was the nsx a failure?

not really. did it bankrupt honda?

how do you even define a business failure?

if it met honda's internal goals, then that's all that matters.

if we want to talk about honda 'failures', why not talk about their f1 program? some people view it as a failure, but it's just honda pivoting their strategy based on external factors.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by ayau

not really. did it bankrupt honda?

how do you even define a business failure?

if it met honda's internal goals, then that's all that matters.

if we want to talk about honda 'failures', why not talk about their f1 program? some people view it as a failure, but it's just honda pivoting their strategy based on external factors.

The NSX was as much of a success as the LFA. No one will appreciate it for 5 years. It had the same nostalgia issues of the MK5 Supra.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by TommyW

Probably this. I wont be trading in my well sorted track focused 86 anytime soon

No point in doing something like that. Really the Integra can only go one of two ways: be a monster for a price, or be okayish and affordable.

Mods might make it really good eventually, but it will just cost more than anything you could do with a twin. I'm sure if you can afford it, it would be worth it, just like if you can afford to mod a Supra or M2 it's worth it.

I've already bought my ticket to get on the hype train though, fare was cheap.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by dpfarr

Was the nsx a failure?

Yes. It massively failed even their own goals. They built a fantastic car (in general) that nobody wanted. It was outsold by every other car in it's segment, some that even haven't been redesigned for over a decade (hello GTR). Nobody was interested in buying a semi self driving heavy hybrid. That's how you end up with single digit monthly sales figures.

Originally Posted by ayau

not really. did it bankrupt honda?

how do you even define a business failure?

if it met honda's internal goals, then that's all that matters.

if we want to talk about honda 'failures', why not talk about their f1 program? some people view it as a failure, but it's just honda pivoting their strategy based on external factors.

Honda's F1 engines are doing great ATM. Which is pretty ironic/typical given that they announced last year they're giving up again. I agree with the LFA comparison, both cars that were halo/demonstrations of the technology capable by their makers. Differences there, however, are that the LFA was a one off whereas the NSX had to build on/live up to the name's legacy - which it didn't do. Most enthusiast don't care about cars that have fancy tech just for the hell of it. Acura has been trying for years to push their sporty reputation. Watch any of their commercials - it's pathetic how hard they're trying (while not being to back it up). Creating the NSX, which sells in such low numbers that nobody realizes it's even still being built, does nothing for brand awareness/reputation.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

^Business case for an NSX Type R version couldn't be justified given the sales failure the car ended up being (selling less than 10 cars a month ain't great). The production numbers for the 2nd gen NSX make the original's look like Camry numbers, lol.

I owned my DB2 GSR for over 20 years. To say this has my interest piqued is an understatement. But I have very little faith in Honda/Acura's execution these days. They could mess up a wet dream. For this to be seriously considered by me, over a 2nd gen BRZ, it will have to hit all the buttons and THEN some (to overcome it's lack of RWD).

FYI the first iteration of the GS-R cost $17,000 back in 1993, which is roughly $31,000 in 2021 money. Here's hoping for something great that's also affordable.

I understand your lack of faith. Not until the FK8 did I consider anything new from Honda myself, but now that I've really experienced it, I have some good confidence in the Integra.

It also seems like they are try to do a little bit of a global brand image update, much like Toyota not too long ago and Hyundai who's literally trying every trick they got.

[ayau]

unless you're in honda's senior executive team, you really don't know if they considered the NSX a failure. you're purely viewing this from a consumers' lens.

[dpfarr]

From the perspective of an owner of an NSX, I hope they would at least see their car as a success.

[wbradley]

From my experience having had 4 new Acura cars consecutively, all were superior to Hondas I have owned or driven in terms of overall finish. My '05 TSX was nicely put together and the first 6 speed stick I had owned. Nice alternative to a BMW 3 series of that time if you didn't mind front wheel drive. There are other good front wheel drive cars too, pretty much all Honda products. It's their niche just as AWD is Subarus. RWD with Honda is a big luxury item, as per the S2000 new car prices when the S2000 was on sale.

[Irace86.2.0]

I think a hybrid sports car is still a hard sell. It adds weight and complexity. It is harder to figure out which motor is doing what when your foot gets pressed when you have four motors. I think most buyers didn’t see the NSX as a cheaper, baby 918, P1 or La Ferrari, even if that is what it was—an exercise in what technology could do. They saw it as a more expensive and faster CRZ. Why? Because it didn’t blow away the ICE counterparts, but the 918 and other halo cars did use electric motors and advanced technology to raise the bar on what could be done to elevate supercars to hypercars. Basically the NSX showed that the electric motors could nullify the extra weight for lap times. Not a great selling point.

In the end, the NSX is an Acura too. It isn’t a Porsche, Audi R8 with a V10 or anything too exotic. It has exotic sports car pricing with a V6. The original NSX was the cheaper and reliable Ferrari. The new NSX probably wasn’t going to claim reliability with all the complex technology, and it wasn’t GTR or C8 Corvette type of cheap.

I think it is a good car, and it looks good, but it isn’t a car that gets me very excited. I don’t know if someone could claim its a great driver’s car.

[ayau]

and people ask why toyota didn't build the supra. this is exactly why. it would be over 80k and nobody would buy it.

[WolfpackS2k]

^Don't be ridiculous. It would have been fantastic and considerably cheaper without all the hybrid crap (which btw adds a lot of weight and cost). Or they could have just built a relatively lightweight mid engine car with the powertrain from the Accord V6. But they had no interest in building a reliable, attractive and (semi) affordable fun sports car. They prefer to fake it for (their mass production) vehicles.

People need to remember that the Integra, in ALL forms, was an inexpensive sports coupe. Even in it's best performing spec (Type R) it was still slower than a Mustang GT. This isn't some moonshot from Acura. It's them trying to introduce a fun sporty gateway car for people into the brand. Sadly given what else Acura offers I don't think most people will want to venture further into the brand catalog

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

I understand your lack of faith. Not until the FK8 did I consider anything new from Honda myself, but now that I've really experienced it, I have some good confidence in the Integra.

That's a mindset I'd probably have if I didn't find all 10th gen Civics incredibly hideous.