Estimated Max HP for a N/A setup.

[Calum]

Why does the famous K20 make such great NA power? It's because of the headflow and great combustion chambers.

The FA20 has been shown to have outstanding resistance to knock even at 12.5:1 compression, so the combustion chambers are certainly there.

We haven't seen anyone post up cam specs let alone head flow numbers. After some earlier posts from Nameless I'm led to believe that the exhaust valves are not equal distances from the port opening which will cause internal reversion issues. That isn't very confidence inspiring, but we'll see how they deal with it. Only time will tell in the end.

Given that we've seen companies running 20 pounds of boost on stock bottom end without knock issues, I'm surprised nobody is talking about upping the compression.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

With an I4 engine its much easier to make the power. Intake manifolds are simpler due to a more configurable runner length and plenum size, only 1 head to design/change, not 2. Also variable lift cams would make a huge difference, rather than just some can timing adjustment. Then the cams themselves could be improved.

Don't forget that Honda's are already designed to rev happier, which gives them a peak HP advantage. If you look at what the stock K20 is doing at 6900rpm, its not to dis-similar to the FA20

Excellent point, I'd love to see the difference is area under the curve for the two engines.

[TouchMyHonda]

I make 240whp on my oem block 1.8 b series Honda motor. I bet this fa20 has 260-300 in it when parts develop. All these intake and headers now are not the end all to be all. They well get better and better and with eventual cam development the same.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by kayoh

I'm asking because countless sources says that this car needs at least 40+ more hp. I'm wondering if this amount of hp (or even more) is attainable without having to go SC/TC and if so what type of modifications and how much $$ would it take.

(btw thanks for such prompt responses)

as of today the gasoline limit is right around 185 - 195 whp with a slightly optomistic dyno. E85 is going to be 200 - 210 ish.

In the not so distant future, there will be intake manifolds and throttle bodies. I would think the IM's will offer 10 - possible 20whp.

Also, i would expect some new header designs or revisions of current designs with slightly better power.

Next comes the expensive stuff like cams, porting, head work, and the ability to rev deep. I would expect another 20 - 30whp once the motor can breath and not float the valves at 8000+ revs.

I would say 250whp NA should be doable in the next year or two.

[avg]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

With an I4 engine its much easier to make the power. Intake manifolds are simpler due to a more configurable runner length and plenum size, only 1 head to design/change, not 2. Also variable lift cams would make a huge difference, rather than just some can timing adjustment. Then the cams themselves could be improved.

Don't forget that Honda's are already designed to rev happier, which gives them a peak HP advantage. If you look at what the stock K20 is doing at 6900rpm, its not to dis-similar to the FA20

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...6&postcount=11

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by kayoh

It's hard to sort through that thread, 80% of it is talking about a totally different engine -___-

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the first page is . The good stuff starts on page two.

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by Calum

Why does the famous K20 make such great NA power? It's because of the headflow and great combustion chambers.

The FA20 has been shown to have outstanding resistance to knock even at 12.5:1 compression, so the combustion chambers are certainly there.

We haven't seen anyone post up cam specs let alone head flow numbers. After some earlier posts from Nameless I'm led to believe that the exhaust valves are not equal distances from the port opening which will cause internal reversion issues. That isn't very confidence inspiring, but we'll see how they deal with it. Only time will tell in the end.

Given that we've seen companies running 20 pounds of boost on stock bottom end without knock issues, I'm surprised nobody is talking about upping the compression.

There is a thread somewhere with the stock cam specs. They were around 255* total duration and 12mm lift.

The head flow will beinteresting. Again one of the vendors was talking about flowing the heads and the whole intake system but i haven't read anymore on that yet.

Incedently i wouldn't hold your breath on a stroker kit. I believe the FA20 has a sub optimal rod/stroke ratio already for packaging reasons. Increasing the stroke would just make that worse and kill any chance of keeping the engine reliable at higher revs.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

There is a thread somewhere with the stock cam specs. They were around 255* total duration and 12mm lift.

The head flow will beinteresting. Again one of the vendors was talking about flowing the heads and the whole intake system but i haven't read anymore on that yet.

Incedently i wouldn't hold your breath on a stroker kit. I believe the FA20 has a sub optimal rod/stroke ratio already for packaging reasons. Increasing the stroke would just make that worse and kill any chance of keeping the engine reliable at higher revs.

I thought those specs were educated guesses.

[Xdragonxb0i]

on a stock engine i dont think we would get more then 220WHP. That is being optimistic.

But we do get a 40WHP Bump With I/H/E+ Tune. stock ~160 to ~200whp

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Calum

Why does the famous K20 make such great NA power? It's because of the headflow and great combustion chambers.

The FA20 has been shown to have outstanding resistance to knock even at 12.5:1 compression, so the combustion chambers are certainly there.

Problem is bottom end of the K20 is designed for higher revs, they've got 15% longer rods, and Honda only thought it safe to bring the K20 to 8600rpm. The FA20 loses on breathing capability because of this and because of the heads (likely not the best flowing), so it's gotta make it up with efficiency, and while it's got the latest combustion system design on its side, that's a lot of air it's missing out on.

[mswhong]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

Watch Nameless Performance. They just picked up a second car for N/A development. ITBs, cams, the whole deal.

Could you please back that up with a link? That sounds way too good to be true! ITBs on a flat four.. now that is something that i'd want for sure!

[troek]

some cars in japan are dynoing up to 220 with bored throttle bodies and full exhaust mods on premium japanese gas. but most are 200-210. think the dynos here run optimistic?

[executivekoala]

My take is that this is a brand new car. Most places don't have specs for the alignment yet so I don't really expect full list of mods to be out either. For Heads,ITB's,Manifolds and the like, take shit tons of R&D and $$$ to develop because they are such crucial parts and require so much into them to get right. It's not like an exhaust where developers battle about 2 hp differences. I think in a the next 2 years we will see tons more NA stuff, more throttle bodies, better tunes, and all the other good stuff, so I am just going to sit back save cash and wait.

[Xdragonxb0i]

i heard the OEM Throttle Body is already pretty large