4th gen ND Mazda MX-5 Miata

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

So from a ball park guess from what we know:

NC: ~2,500 lbs, 167 horses: 14.97 lb/hp
ND: ~2,300 lbs, 155 horses: 14.84 lb/hp
Toyobaru: ~2,800 lbs, 200 horses: 14.00 lb/hp
ND @ 167 horses: 13.77 lb/hp

If Mazda works the 2.0L over to match the outgoing NC (totally reasonable) and it's got a decent powerband (should be due to the DI) and appropriate gear selection (don't think that's been a problem for the Miata) it could be a blink or two quicker than the Toyobaru.

Worst case, it's only a hair quicker than the outgoing model. Mazda's new slogan seems to be: just enough to keep you smiling.

I agree, you have to think they'll be able to get more than 155 hp out of a DI 2L with skyactive (high CR).

As everyone who complains about the Toyobaru engine says, 100hp/L is kind of par for the course. I have hope the 2.0L Miata engine will be closer to 200hp than 155.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

@chrisl @thill

Specs still aren't out, they could totally hit those power figures if they throw fuel economy out the window, Toyobaru managed to get 200 horses with D4S, no reason Mazda can't come close with true DI.

You'll notice I didn't say anything about power figures - I'm sure Mazda has the technology to hit >200hp from a NA 2L if they want (by revving fairly high with a late torque peak). I was just talking about torque. 170ft-lb from a 2L NA is 85ft-lb/L, which is the same as the Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0 (84.75ft-lb/L) and the 991 GT3 (85.25ft-lb/L). It's also only a tiny bit below the Ferrari 458 (88ft-lb/L). I really doubt Mazda is going to push their engine for a Miata quite that hard. I wouldn't be surprised if they were around 150ft-lb, but 170 would be very surprising out of a 2L in that price class of car.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by chrisl

You'll notice I didn't say anything about power figures - I'm sure Mazda has the technology to hit >200hp from a NA 2L if they want (by revving fairly high with a late torque peak). I was just talking about torque. 170ft-lb from a 2L NA is 85ft-lb/L, which is the same as the Porsche 997 GT3 RS 4.0 (84.75ft-lb/L) and the 991 GT3 (85.25ft-lb/L). It's also only a tiny bit below the Ferrari 458 (88ft-lb/L). I really doubt Mazda is going to push their engine for a Miata quite that hard. I wouldn't be surprised if they were around 150ft-lb, but 170 would be very surprising out of a 2L in that price class of car.

I think those cars you mentioned make so much torque because they have everything tuned for a very specific range that's quite high up. This engine will definitely not have such a high torque peak so it'll have trouble reaching producing that much torque even with everything optimized for torque at that point.

That said, the super high CR could bring it up to like 160 ft-lb pretty easily if the cams and piping are in harmony, and that would be at a very reasonable rev range too. A solid amount of power for a 2200lb car.

[rice_classic]

Their other skyactiv-G engines (like in the 3 or 6) are like 13.5:1 CR yet still are designed to run 87 octane. Uh, yes please.

Pretty sure the Miata engine will be a bit more aggressively tuned and will require 91 octane but still...

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by abraxis

AutoX yes. That's really a chassis advantage for a smaller car more than related to power. The current and past Miatas are already fine for autoX compared to the FRS. Same with your MR2. On the track? Not so much. The Miata will always be down on power and aero compared to the FRS stock for stock.

The Miata is still going to be a Miata, not a Corvette.

I am not sure where the Corvette comment comes in? I am not hating on the twins. In fact that could not be further from the truth. I am a huge FT86 fanboi. All I am saying is that a lot of people (not I) have been hoping that someone is going to make a car that will pressure Toyota enough that they may be inclined to boast the power of the twins a bit to compensate. Maybe the new MX-5 will do exactly that.

Yes, the MX-5 will be down on power to the twins but the reduce weight will even things out. The twins win the aero contest versus the MX-5 with convertible top but the MX-5 will get the removable hard top as an accessory either at launch or soon after which will make the aero comparable.

[rice_classic]

Most things win the aero contest against the Miata. I notice this with the CRX, even it cuts through the air way better. I don't know what it is about the miata but it has a pretty terrible CoD.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I am not sure where the Corvette comment comes in? I am not hating on the twins. In fact that could not be further from the truth. I am a huge FT86 fanboi. All I am saying is that a lot of people (not I) have been hoping that someone is going to make a car that will pressure Toyota enough that they may be inclined to boast the power of the twins a bit to compensate. Maybe the new MX-5 will do exactly that.

Yes, the MX-5 will be down on power to the twins but the reduce weight will even things out. The twins win the aero contest versus the MX-5 with convertible top but the MX-5 will get the removable hard top as an accessory either at launch or soon after which will make the aero comparable.

No, putting hardtop on a Miata will not make the aero comparable at all. Doesn't work like that.

The Corvette came up because you mentioned the stock Miata being a more competent track car than the 86, not going to happen. Power> Power/weight on most fast tracks. Hence why the Corvette or even a Mustang are better 'track' cars than a stock Miata.

[serialk11r]

The Miata needs a fastback hardtop to be comparable to the FRS (well actually with a good fastback it would be better). The extra "gap" due to the shape even with a hardtop causes a couple percent in drag.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by abraxis

No, putting hardtop on a Miata will not make the aero comparable at all. Doesn't work like that.

The Corvette came up because you mentioned the stock Miata being a more competent track car than the 86, not going to happen. Power> Power/weight on most fast tracks. Hence why the Corvette or even a Mustang are better 'track' cars than a stock Miata.

I did not say it would be "more competent". I said it would give the twins all they want. Whether the Corvette or Mustang are better track cars than the Miata (or twin for that matter) depends on your definition of "track car" and goals. Neither would occupy the same class as the MX-5. Some people do not need a big honkin V8 to have fun. I've been there and done that many times. I am perfectly happy in the 2.0L class and think it is a bit ridiculous to try to compare our cars to machines with 2.5+ times the displacement or try to pump them up with FI to compete with such cars either on the street or track.

The MX-5 and the FR-S/GT86/BRZ are the only two cars currently produced that fill the 2.0L or under RWD lightweight sports car market segment. It is natural to compare them and wonder how new models, in this case the 2016 MX-5, will affect the balance of power on the street/track, sales numbers and future updates to competing models.

[jflogerzi]

I am happy to see the us get the 2.0L engine out they are going to stay naturally aspirated. I really love the new mx-5. If i had the money for a good weekend car this would be it for sure

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I am perfectly happy in the 2.0L class and think it is a bit ridiculous to try to compare our cars to machines with 2.5+ times the displacement or try to pump them up with FI to compete with such cars either on the street or track.

Well I also think it's ridiculous to compare a small, short wheelbase roadster with a larger, more powerful coupe that has better aero. Glad we are in agreement.

[abraxis]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

I am happy to see the us get the 2.0L engine out they are going to stay naturally aspirated. I really love the new mx-5. If i had the money for a good weekend car this would be it for sure

I'll be keeping an eye out on the Fiat/Afla version unless they ditch the PRHT. Tired of removable hardtops and worrying anout soft tops.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by abraxis

Well I also think it's ridiculous to compare a small, short wheelbase roadster with a larger, more powerful coupe that has better aero. Glad we are in agreement.

Well, the difference between the Skyactiv G 2.0 and the FA20 is way smaller than the difference between the FA20 and an LT1 or LS3. Nevermind an LS3, the difference is way smaller than the difference between an FA20 and a Porsche 2.7L 9A1. We're talking same displacement, similar technical features, but one is made for a slightly higher rpm range.

The difference in the amount of metal the engines have to push around is not so small though.

[YukiHachiRoku]

fyi *not official from mazda*

http://driving.ca/mazda/mx-5/auto-sh...155-horsepower

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/20...ine-91623.html

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/01/27/2...power/#image-5

I like it, 200 lbs lighter, lower, wider, 2.0 liter with more efficiency.

probably a lot of fun to drive too! might consider one when I return to the US.