SCCA Solo C Street Discussion

[tony_r]

Originally Posted by 86prime

TS aside, you can't enter SSC unless you buy a used car.

Is there a problem with that? It's a cheaper cost for entry to the class.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by conehead

I doubt it, but even if it did it would definitely never include the tS. That would force anyone who wanted to be truly competitive to go buy a tS.

What is there of value to the tS that isn't replaced by SSC parts? All I can see is the wang and lip/side skirts.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be better to exclude it too as the wing would make a difference in a spec class, but 'car to have' seems like an overstatement to me.

[86prime]

Originally Posted by tony_r

Is there a problem with that? It's a cheaper cost for entry to the class.

The significance of the problem, I'll let others opine. But it is a "problem" for those who don't want to buy a used car or who already bought a 17+ car. I don't see the new ND getting tossed aside.

[tony_r]

STX is a nice place to play.

[conehead]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

What is there of value to the tS that isn't replaced by SSC parts? All I can see is the wang and lip/side skirts.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be better to exclude it too as the wing would make a difference in a spec class, but 'car to have' seems like an overstatement to me.

I would be the opposite of the goal of a spec class (cost control) to keep allowing faster versions of the car in each year, no matter how slight. It would probably not matter much in a local event, but at the national level every serious competitor would be forced to keep buying the new hotness. That is the main problem with the street classes now, and the reason most twin drivers moved to STX until SSC was developed. STX is still a great option for those who want a non-spec twin.


Only one or two cars are ever truly capable of winning each street class and the list changes nearly every year. For example, I currently run HS in an old Focus SVT and am dominant locally, but simply can not beat a fully prepped Fiesta ST with a good driver. I accept that and have no ambition of going to Lincoln.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by conehead

I would be the opposite of the goal of a spec class (cost control) to keep allowing faster versions of the car in each year, no matter how slight.

Let me rephrase my question - how is a tS faster than a regular '17+ 86/BRZ in SSC trim?

Edit: and most classes have 3-5 viable cars, only the spec Corvette and Miata classes are really locked up. SS, BS, DS, FS, GS, HS and STX all had 3+ different cars in the top 5 this year, with STH growing that will also be a diverse class and I have a hunch the wet kept the M3 from making STU a 3 make podium as well.

[86prime]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Let me rephrase my question - how is a tS faster than a regular '17+ 86/BRZ in SSC trim?

Well then just let all the reindeer play... wang, red nose, and all.

[86prime]

Originally Posted by conehead

It would probably not matter much in a local event, but at the national level every serious competitor would be forced to keep buying the new hotness. That is the main problem with the street classes now, and the reason most twin drivers moved to STX until SSC was developed. STX is still a great option for those who want a non-spec twin.

Will people be forced to chase the new ND hotness? (I honestly don't know.)

May I restate the obvious that you cannot simultaneously be STX prepped and be CA street legal.

I also have no Nationals ambitions.

[tony_r]

Yes, the ND2 is in CS.

I would remind you that the allowances in ST are just that. Nobody is forcing you to do those changes. Come underprepped if illegal-for-CA mods worry you. In comparison, if you were going to run in a TT series, a lot of them allow illegal mods right out of the gate in base classing. In the 86-specific TT classing, the tS is automatically put in the "illegal" mod classes...

If you have no national ambitions then what makes your voice matter? This is national classing you're commenting on. It's unrealistic to think that every new car made, along with the special editions, can have a competitive place to play.

On a local level just come out with your car and drive. It really doesn't matter and in most cases, new people often get ruined when they're driving overdog cars.

[redfred]

Is there any speculation that the early twins will be moved from DS to ES?

[tony_r]

Originally Posted by redfred

Is there any speculation that the early twins will be moved from DS to ES?

Not while ES is healthy with NB Miatas and MR2s. I see things switching around in conjunction with STS's health level. Current ES to STS, then move the 86/NC down. Few years from now, maybe?

[conehead]

Originally Posted by 86prime

May I restate the obvious that you cannot simultaneously be STX prepped and be CA street legal.

Seriously? As if I needed another reason to never move back to CA. So all the ST cars in cali are trailered?

[conehead]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Let me rephrase my question - how is a tS faster than a regular '17+ 86/BRZ in SSC trim?

Impossible to know by how much, but the simple answer is faster. And the 17+ cars again will be faster by some small amount. At the national level, which is what matters for classing, and the top ten drivers are separated by .010 sec it definitely matters. So for SSC where the goal is to be totally equal, it is counterproductive. If you REALLY want to split hairs, the seriesblue cars with the body kit are allowed in SSC.


Back to the point of CS, these are still great cars. They just aren't going to be beating the new Miatas at Nationals. At your local event, who cares? Just go have fun.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by conehead

Impossible to know by how much, but the simple answer is faster.

Jesus Christ it really is an autox thread 'cause y'all keep missing the fucking question: what makes it faster?

The brakes don't make it faster
It has the exact same power train as another '17+
In SSC it will have the exact same suspension wheels tires and alignment as every other car

So it's just the wing, which for all we know hampers the car. I don't need some bullshit quantifier or guesses or for someone to explain to me how racing works, I just wanted to know what advantage the tS offers that the base model doesn't for SSC.



Anyway you're right back to CS, I like Tony's suggestion but I doubt it will happen this decade as ES cars are likely to remain cheap and available for a few more years before the old guard of CS sufficiently crosses the threshold into <$10k to justify being the new entry level sports car, and STS car supply is still healthy around here so unless it declines into lower numbers (which will probably happen soon enough) not sure why they'd obsolete them quite yet.

In any case the car is miserable without camber, don't know how y'all can do it but more power to you.