Innovate (Sprintex) Supercharger Owners Topic

[xxscaxx]

Does anyone else have a really low idle, especially with HVAC on? I know its known to drop rpm when its on, but mine drops pretty low to where the car shakes a bit.

Its really not that big of a deal, just kind of annoying lol.

In regards to 8.58 and the CEL - I have not experienced any of these codes, but I never really even beat on my car, or go above 5k LOL so I wouldn't know.

[mikalem]

I have spoken with Bill and got him some logs while the car was exhibiting the behavior - he has a hunch it has to do with the 70mm pulley and/or 100% DI so he's ordered one in. He's expecting to get that on the shop car to review and see if he can reproduce the behavior targeting early next week. Hopefully that will yield some good information and perhaps an adjustment! <crosses fingers>

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by mikalem

I have spoken with Bill and got him some logs while the car was exhibiting the behavior - he has a hunch it has to do with the 70mm pulley and/or 100% DI so he's ordered one in. He's expecting to get that on the shop car to review and see if he can reproduce the behavior targeting early next week. Hopefully that will yield some good information and perhaps an adjustment! <crosses fingers>

Which behavior. There are several being talked about.

[mikalem]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Which behavior. There are several being talked about.

Ah sorry about that

P0302/P0303 issues with IC and 70mm pulley on 93 oct fuel. Bill has a log I ran this morning with around 40% throttle after being warmed up, running the car up to 5k+ to cause the misfire situation to occur. The code actually stored in the ECU but didn't make the check engine light go solid on - it just flashed at me. I pulled it, then cleared the ECU to reset.

Bill has a 70mm pulley on order and expects to have it on his test car early next week to try and reproduce locally for him - for now he thinks it might have something to do with either his method of DI injection in higher RPMs, the smaller pulley, or both. Just waiting for him to get the needed parts to try and reproduce it, and report back.

[Draco-REX]

Quick question for the 70mm guys. What size belt are you running? I never got my belt with my pulley.

Whistled through a tin can and string.

[mikalem]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Quick question for the 70mm guys. What size belt are you running? I never got my belt with my pulley.

Whistled through a tin can and string.

I'm running the stock belt per moto-easts suggestion

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by mikalem

I'm running the stock belt per moto-easts suggestion

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

The stock Innovate belt?

Whistled through a tin can and string.

[Area86]

I have gotten a p0302 code on both 70mm and 75mm pulleys with IC on e85.

Sent from Samsung Galaxy Note 3

[mikalem]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

The stock Innovate belt?

Whistled through a tin can and string.

Yup, that's the one - don't have the part number handy though.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Draco-REX

Quick question for the 70mm guys. What size belt are you running? I never got my belt with my pulley.

Whistled through a tin can and string.

Stock innovate. Belt tensioner does its job.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by mikalem

Yup, that's the one - don't have the part number handy though.

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Stock. Belt tensioner does its job.

Thanks. "Stock" kind of implies the belt the car came with, which I don't think would be long enough.

[brianhj]

Originally Posted by xxscaxx

Does anyone else have a really low idle, especially with HVAC on? I know its known to drop rpm when its on, but mine drops pretty low to where the car shakes a bit.

This is fixed with an ecu update from dealership. Mine idles really low, car shakes, lights dim and then it goes back up to 1k or so and smooths out. Back and forth. It's a known issue, I haven't taken mine in yet

[Xero-Limit]

You can try to milk the DI for a good amount, but we've had problems hitting injection window maximums. At some point you either hit the side of the piston as it comes down, or you are fueling while combustion happens--that can cause a misfire. I don't have the paper with all the math on it with me, but at 12-13 psi (70mm pulley) you are going to be awfully close to that limit, especially e85. For that reason a good PI mix is essential. Frankly we've run the tune both at mostly DI, and a mix of DI/PI throughout. End result is that it runs just fine with a DI/PI mix. The knock supression from direct injection does not disappear when you add port injection. We found the same exact thing when tuning NA. In theory DI only should make more power, but the ratios that the car runs (20% PI in stock form) do not really make it any more knock prone. Better just leave it on to clean the valves and keep drivability smooth without all those changeovers. Not relying solely on DI for fueling also gives the ability to time the charge more precisely and make more power.

[DeliciousTuning]

Originally Posted by mikalem

Ah sorry about that

P0302/P0303 issues with IC and 70mm pulley on 93 oct fuel. Bill has a log I ran this morning with around 40% throttle after being warmed up, running the car up to 5k+ to cause the misfire situation to occur. The code actually stored in the ECU but didn't make the check engine light go solid on - it just flashed at me. I pulled it, then cleared the ECU to reset.

Bill has a 70mm pulley on order and expects to have it on his test car early next week to try and reproduce locally for him - for now he thinks it might have something to do with either his method of DI injection in higher RPMs, the smaller pulley, or both. Just waiting for him to get the needed parts to try and reproduce it, and report back.

There is a very specific scenario (hiccup/missfire) we are seeing with a few select customers. You will need this configuration and meet these certain scenarios for this aspect to happen. (This does not affect 75mm pulley setups)

Parts on the vehicle
1. Innovate Supercharge with Intercooler
2. 70mm Pulley on The Supercharger
3. Flex Fuel Tune on the vehicle
4. Currently at about an E20-E30 mix (so mainly fuel but still some ethanol)

Logs in from vehicle
1. Car warmed up to about 80-90 degree Celsius
2. Intake temps around 15-25 degrees Celsius
3. Engine RPM around 5000 RPM
4. Engine Load around 0.75-0.85 (around 0 vacuum, so no boost 12-13 PSI, )

From what we are seeing, there is a hiccup/missfire that occurs in this scenario and I have a good idea of what it is. I will be verifying this over the next week (hopefully over the weekend) by installing a 70mm pulley on my personal vehicle which has the Innovate Kit of course. This way we can accurately reproduce this exact scenario and can run these exact conditions.

Running above 12-13 PSI with Direct Injection

I know there has been some problems that EcuTeK tuners around the world have been running into with respect to running PI/DI above 12-13 PSI. We did speak to EcuTeK about this a bit as we are tackling this from a completely different approach. It was a good conversation to understand the problems other tuners are running into and we did offer some hints into what we are doing to bypass these problems.

From what we have seen, most all tuners are either using a split PI/DI ratios to obtain optimal A/F ratios or pure PI approach. With the PI/DI approach at some point this is not scale-able, about 12-13 PSI. Now the pure PI approach is to just run pure PI (no DI at all under boost) and you can scale as needed but then you lose the ability to use DI effectively.

Now we (Delicious Tuning) have developed a technique with EcuTeK RaceROM that allows us to take full advantage of benefits of DI while being 100% scale-able. The OEM Manufacturers have spent millions if not billions of dollars developing these systems to improve their vehicles so we make sure to use them to their full potential. Even the new Subaru WRX comes with DI and DI only, and many manufacturers are following suit. Bye bye port injection, so you better get on board...

Here are just some of the reasons we use DI so extensively and some of the advantages of our tunes because of our in own house technique.
1. Cooler engine temperatures
2. Improved fuel economy
3. Tip-In knock elimination
4. Better, crisper throttle response
5. Smoother power delivery
6. More power with less total injector

As we have been doing for quite some time now we run our DI system to its full potential first and foremost and then add in PI as needed. This is much different approach and I believe something that only Delicious Tuning offers currently and something we are working with our lawyers on for an official Copyright.

As for running boost past 12-13 PSI with our technique described briefly above we have no problems running well above 12-13 PSI as we are 100% scale-able to 20+ PSI with no problems. Everyone is more than welcome to check out dyno charts in the MA Performance, Full Blown, FA20Club, JDL, Greddy, AVO, PTuning Turbo kits for more info on what we have accomplished.

Now with respect to stock injectors on this kit. We have not had a problem running completely stock injectors and fuel pumps on the Innovate Kits with 70mm pulley and intercooler. In fact with our DI->PI Technique (stock injectors) we can run turbo cars on E85 to about 360whp on a dynojet, so with that in mind there is plenty of room for the Innovate Kit to make power with stock injectors and room to spare. Hint hint...

Finally...

Hope that answers some questions, explains how our system works compared to others and answers concerns everyone might be having. Basically if you stay out of this particular range (stated above) you will not find yourself having any problems. It is definitely a unique situation we are working on as soon as we get a 70mm pulley on my personal vehicle.

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning