2016 Honda Civic Thread (10th gen)

[BaatLuk]

There is a thread over on the Civic forum that has many dealers listed, some are not charging a markup. Go over there and take a look. One good thing about the CTR is that it might drive down prices for the Twin. Win-win for customers!

[gymratter]

More versions of Civic Type R are in the works

http://www.autonews.com/article/2017...ype-r-variants

MONTREAL — The forbidden fruit has arrived. And it’s going to come in more than one flavor.

The Honda Civic Type R finally went on sale in the U.S. last week after being confined to Japan and Europe for two decades and four generations. Eagle-eyed fans of its stat sheet will notice that the engine output, transmission and front-wheel-drive setup on the redesigned 2017 model largely are carried over from the previous version.

But more variety is in the works. Honda is planning additional versions of the Type R in an effort to broaden its consumer appeal and keep sales fresh, a challenge many sports cars and niche enthusiast vehicles face after initial demand wears off. In doing so, Honda is following the playbook of brands such as Porsche and Chevy’s performance arm that have become masters at using countless iterations and special editions of a single model to juice sales.

“We’re hoping that by gradually putting out more [variants] that we’ll be able to maintain a more stable sales volume,” Hideki Matsumoto, chief engineer for the Civic model range, told Automotive News through an interpreter at a media event here this month.

Atop Honda’s list is a more hard-core version of the Type R with more horsepower. Honda also is considering a toned-down version “focused more on the grand touring aspect” that would broaden the car’s target market, Matsumoto said.

An all-wheel-drive version also could happen; many of the Type R’s direct competitors come standard with awd -- Volkswagen’s Golf R, Subaru’s WRX and WRX STI and Ford’s Focus RS.

But because this was the first Type R sold in the U.S., Honda wanted to introduce it in the same form that has earned it a considerable following abroad, Matsumoto said. So the original recipe stuck: fwd, lighter weight, a six-speed manual transmission and an approachable asking price ($34,775, including shipping, for the single trim level).

The car has a 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine that’s largely the same as in the previous Type R; it makes 306 hp and 295 pounds-feet of torque. An adaptive suspension, limited-slip differential, Brembo front brakes and automatic rev-matching on downshifts round out the car’s performance goodies.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

They're 245's... A set of 245 RE71R's for a 17" wheel is <$700, same diameter as the >$1k 245-35-20 280TW Continentals on the CTR... RE71R on a 19 is ~$1.1k,

idk, I just feel like they sacrificed tire cost and unsprung weight for a pretty brake kit and fat wheels. We'll see, maybe the bbk brings pad costs down enough to live with the increased tire cost, but that's rare in my experience, tires are almost always the most expensive consumable with the exception of fuel.

Eh, I feel like the brake excuse is BS. There's no way that car's brakes require 20 inches wheels in order to fit. Just no way.

[8RZ]

Do they give you a 20" spare wheel too?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Eh, I feel like the brake excuse is BS. There's no way that car's brakes require 20 inches wheels in order to fit. Just no way.

[vh_supra26]

https://www.facebook.com/dynocenterp...8777143605363/

[gymratter]

If you thought the $33,900 base price for the 2018 Honda Civic Type R was a bit steep for a front-wheel drive hot hatch, you ain’t seen nothing yet. That’s because some dealers aren’t going to let the limited-production Hondas go for anything less than $15,000 over MSRP. And I spoke with one dealer who’s charging an absurd $30,000 over sticker.

That’s almost a 90 percent markup, which is absolutely bonkers for any car. And don’t think prospective customers haven’t noticed: the car went on sale Wednesday and there’s already an entire thread on the CivicX forum called “Honda Civic Type-R Over sticker dealer naughty list [sic],” which includes a spreadsheet filled with dozens of dealerships and their respective markups.

I called up a few of the dealers on the spreadsheet (they’re mostly on the west coast) to confirm the heinously high prices. Kenny at Elk Grove Honda told me his dealership is charging folks $5,000 to get on a waiting list for the Civic Type R, and once a vehicle comes in, customers will pay $15,000 over MSRP.

I asked Kenny if this $15,000 markup would go down over time, and he said no—if anything, prices could go up. He told me: “We’ve been getting requests for this car for over year... [customers] know what it’s going to do and what it’s going to be.”

He went on, saying “There’s only 6,000 being made in the next two years,” and that “True enthusiasts will pay every penny to get this car.” (To clarify, only 6,000 Type Rs will be sold stateside.)

Then I called Honda Cars of Corona, and spoke with Omar. He told me he’s charging an incredible $30,000 markup. That means that, with the $700 destination charge, a 2018 Honda Civic Type R could cost nearly $65,000. He then told me he doesn’t anticipate that markup going down because of the low volumes, and the fact that the first car sold for $200,000 (it’s worth noting that the bid was for charity).

I called up a number of other dealerships, who told me similar stories. Walnut Creek Honda—which the spreadsheet shows is charging $5,000 over MSRP—said it doesn’t have any Civic Type Rs available yet, so it doesn’t know exact pricing. But what the gentleman on the phone did say was that the dealer only anticipates one or two Type Rs this year, and with the high demand, there’s “no doubt” there will be a markup. How much of a markup is yet to be determined, but the guy told me that typical markups for these cars were in the $5,000 to $10,000 range.

Take a look at all the dealerships on CivicX’s spreadsheet that allegedly have markups in the $10,000 to $20,000 range—it’s a long list. Looks like folks looking to pick up a 2018 Civic Type R might have a hell of a time finding one for anywhere near MSRP. They’re just going to have to decide if it’s really worth it.

http://jalopnik.com/dealers-are-char...a-c-1796181591

[rice_classic]

It won't last long assuming supply is not artificially constrained to keep the markup in play.

I'd rock a Type R. Can't justify the cost, heck I'm having a hard time justifying keeping the FRS.

[WolfpackS2k]

Is this not proof that there is pent up demand for a new (true) Honda performance car? In other words, an S2000 successor?

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Is this not proof that there is pent up demand for a new (true) Honda performance car? In other words, an S2000 successor?

Not really. Just about every new car model has some level of this going one the first few weeks. Same thing happened with the '05 Mustang (the first retro model) and the new Camaro when it came back, even though everyone knew there was going to be no shortage of supply with 5 to 6 figure output per year.

Some folks are willing to pay the stupid tax to be first on the block. Dealers might as well take advantage of it.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Is this not proof that there is pent up demand for a new (true) Honda performance car? In other words, an S2000 successor?

Just speculating but I think MSRP for any S2000 successor would be $40-45k to bump the CTR's 2.0T to 340 hp and put it into a bespoke RWD chassis. That's cheaper than a base 718 Boxster ($57k) but almost as much horsepower as a 718 Boxster S ($68k). It would also put these cars in similar market positions as they were in 2000 by inflation-adjusted MSRP.

I think the problem with the original S2000 was nobody was willing to pay $32k for 240 torqueless hp back in 2000. The torque issue is solved by using a turbo in the new S2000, but are people willing to pay $40-45k for 340 hp today? Not sure...

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Is this not proof that there is pent up demand for a new (true) Honda performance car? In other words, an S2000 successor?

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Just speculating but I think MSRP for any S2000 successor would be $40-45k to bump the CTR's 2.0T to 340 hp and put it into a bespoke RWD chassis. That's cheaper than a base 718 Boxster ($57k) but almost as much horsepower as a 718 Boxster S ($68k). It would also put these cars in similar market positions as they were in 2000 by inflation-adjusted MSRP.

I think the problem with the original S2000 was nobody was willing to pay $32k for 240 torqueless hp back in 2000. The torque issue is solved by using a turbo in the new S2000, but are people willing to pay $40-45k for 340 hp today? Not sure...

Definitely a lot of speculation, but we've also gotta remember that one is a 4dr hatchback, while the other is a 2-seat roadster. Naturally, the 4dr will be more practical of an all around car than a roadster.

More people will be able to use the CTR as a day to day vehicle than a S2K successor

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Definitely a lot of speculation, but we've also gotta remember that one is a 4dr hatchback, while the other is a 2-seat roadster. Naturally, the 4dr will be more practical of an all around car than a roadster.

More people will be able to use the CTR as a day to day vehicle than a S2K successor

Yep that's a good point too. It's a lot harder for people to pay that kind of money for a weekend fun car vs. buying the CTR as a sort of practical "family" car.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Yep that's a good point too. It's a lot harder for people to pay that kind of money for a weekend fun car vs. buying the CTR as a sort of practical "family" car.

I agree with you, besides with the way things are going. This might be one of the last "fun" performance-oriented sedan, manufacturer are moving into CUV and cars aren't selling as well. Soon it will just all be electric and performance SUV. : (