Has anyone had a warranty claim denied? Seized engine! Pics of teardown added 6/5

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by regal

Has anyone had a blown injector o-ring running an oil cooler?

I'm running a cooler and have not had a failure...... Yet.

[2forme]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

And I would call total bullshit on them. If 7300 is the OEM redline, then the engine can function beyond that level--the engineers just designed a buffer in to keep Joe Schmo from blowing up the car the first time he mashes the accelerator.

You can call BS all you want. (To them) The odds are you won't pursue anything that effects them at a considerable scale so they have no problem essentially telling you to piss off LOL.

I'm not saying you wouldn't, but that's their thought process.

[OrbitalEllipses]

@CSG Mike I think you should start linking good/interesting posts in the OP.

eg #406, #412, #417, #421

And those are just from this page...

Originally Posted by 2forme

You can call BS all you want. (To them) The odds are you won't pursue anything that effects them at a considerable scale so they have no problem essentially telling you to piss off LOL.

I'm not saying you wouldn't, but that's their thought process.

This is where it pays to be in a financial situation where you can go after them, simply on principle.

I have done many things that were grueling, painful, and wasteful even...because I am a principled person.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by 2forme

You can call BS all you want. (To them) The odds are you won't pursue anything that effects them at a considerable scale so they have no problem essentially telling you to piss off LOL.

I'm not saying you wouldn't, but that's their thought process.

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

This is where it pays to be in a financial situation where you can go after them, simply on principle.

I have done many things that were grueling, painful, and wasteful even...because I am a principled person.

Thats where a significant amount of bitching can work wonders. If you make yourself enough of a nuisance at the dealership level, they will expend the effort to avoid you going out and badmouthing the dealership. I've had experience with this before, and no need to go after them from a legal perspective. The power of the internet and being able to claim that you'll give your story to Autoblog and Jalopnik gives the average owner a lot more power than they did 10 years ago.

TL : DR--"The squeaky wheel gets the grease"

[SubieNate]

I drove over an hour back to my dealership when I had the cam sensor issue one day after I bought the car. I made it clear I was very unhappy. A month later my free 7 year 100k warranty paperwork showed up.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

I drove over an hour back to my dealership when I had the cam sensor issue one day after I bought the car. I made it clear I was very unhappy. A month later my free 7 year 100k warranty paperwork showed up.

Had a similar issue happen after the dealership screwed up the S/C installation on my previous car (tC). And it turned out to be well worth it when the synchros in 3rd and 2nd gear wore out around 80k miles.

[P@ul]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Pics from teardown

Did the dealer finally perform the teardown or did you guys do it?

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by P@ul

Did the dealer finally perform the teardown or did you guys do it?

He said earlier in the thread (last Thurs/Fri maybe?) that someone other than his initial contact at Subaru authorized further teardown.

[suaveflooder]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Thats where a significant amount of bitching can work wonders. If you make yourself enough of a nuisance at the dealership level, they will expend the effort to avoid you going out and badmouthing the dealership. I've had experience with this before, and no need to go after them from a legal perspective. The power of the internet and being able to claim that you'll give your story to Autoblog and Jalopnik gives the average owner a lot more power than they did 10 years ago.

TL : DR--"The squeaky wheel gets the grease"

This. Mine was over something simple. It was a stripped strut allen hole i found when i was starting to lower the car. I talked to 5 different people and all told me "no." I sent an email to the General Manager or the dealership telling him about the whole situation. That was two days ago. I am sitting in the waiting room of the dealership while they are changing that strut as i write this. Make some noise and don't stop until you reach the top and it will get done

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by Regal

They have the injector position so that normal driving the o-ring won't see over 500F, but keep the engine close to redline for an extended time and that o-ring doesn't stand a chance regardless of timing during a shift.

There is more to this than we are being told. We need an o-ring made from asbestos or ceramic, not Teflon or an organic polymer, any after market vendors have this on their radar?. Teflon is a very poor choice. Makes you wonder if Toyota laid off their materials engineering group during the recession ?

Or we enthusiasts need to take a serious look at our head water temperatures, I'm guessing there is a water jacket right around that o-ring in the head. A better water pump/radiator & oil cooler may be the real fix for spirited driving.

I had addressed this earlier in the thread, but I will bring it up again here.


I have several of the "other" direct injectors here at work on my desk, (we make upgraded pumps for DI motors among other DI solutions)

All gasoline direct injectors i have sampled (except the siemens provided bmw injectors) use very nearly identical injectors, all that changes is the orientation, spray pattern and mounting tabs. this goes for both the Denso and the Bosch injectors, they all use this Teflon band to seal to the head and all in the same location ours is neither closer or further away than any of the others.

Considerations not yet mentioned? perhaps the tolerances on the head are not as tight as the other manufacturers? if there is even .0003 more clearance in the diameter where this seals in the head, it could make all the difference in the world as far as heat transfer, and integrity of the seal.


Lets quit blaming the seal though, it hasn't been an issue in audi's Mazda's nissan's or chevy's yet....the problem lies elsewhere.


BTW you aren't gona find any ceramics that will stretch to get down into the relief where this seal sits.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Lets quit blaming the seal though, it hasn't been an issue in audi's Mazda's nissan's or chevy's yet....the problem lies elsewhere.

Are you sure it hasn't been a problem in Mazda's? I've found a couple places selling upgraded seals to fix issues they've encountered, but I haven't done much research into exactly what they were seeing.

http://www.therpmstore.com/store/p/5...-3-6-CX-7.html

One of the strangest roadblocks faced was that increasing the horsepower meant increasing the cylinder pressure and as a result the load on the fuel injector seals. The fuel injector is located directly in the cylinder and every time the spark plug fires it sees a tremendous pressure spike. Working with fellow enthusiast Scott Chambers, cp-e™ is proud to introduce the solution. An injector seal that will handle the added pressure and stress of a high HP direct injected engine.

http://www.protegegarage.com/1767-fu...azdaspeed.html

or is that a different part all together?

[Bamixam]

Originally Posted by regal

In other words root cause is heat (>450F) melting the Teflon, this is a heat soak issue first. Not an instant death by fast throttle/shifting. Just makes more sense to me.

Has anyone had a blown injector o-ring running an oil cooler?

This is a thought I've had in the back of my head for a while. Heat. The oil in this motor runs HOT. Way hotter than what I would consider to be a safe level. There is plenty of evidence of this on the Torque App thread since the PID for Oil Temp was recently discovered.

This guy saw a peak oil temp of 276F while on track running a completely stock motor.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=309

Even just normal driving around town without any heavy throttle is producing fairly high temps.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=181
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=182

Perrin also documented the power loss that is associated with high oil temps in this car on their blog.
http://blog.perrinperformance.com/pe...-s-oil-cooler/

In my opinion 276F (or really anything above 230F/110C) seems like it is WAY too hot for engine oil to be sitting at. After my oil cooler, I usually sit around 175F and peak around 185F during around town and freeway driving while on the track during 30 minute sessions, I usually average around 215F while peaking to 220F every once in a while.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by P@ul

Did the dealer finally perform the teardown or did you guys do it?

The teardown was authorized by the regional rep. The teardown was extensive enough that the entire engine was taken out of the car, and as you can see from the pictures, more or less have the entire engine completely apart.

[#87]

Any final word on the conclusion? i.e. who is financially responsible and why.