TV's

[RFB]

For those upgrading to 4k -

The vast majority of viewers do not watch HD from direct antennas.
Cable etc. does not provide a full 1080p.HD signal due to macroblocking, bit robbing, and ALL the cheap compression processes used to put more digibits in a pipeline too small for the volume.
Pay per view channels tend to get more digi info, but still look bad compared to the Blu ray equivalent through an OPPO.

The vast majority of watched broadcast is equivalent to 720p., even though original source was 1080, because the signal is stepped on.

We still don't have full 1080p., can you imagine how long before a full 4k changeover !
Standard 1080p. plasma, will last many years before its worthwhile to get a 4k set.
Especially now since the price of the nadir of the present technology is dropping so low.
A paper thin, curved organic light emmitting diode 4k TV in a worthwhile size at present will be VERY expensive, but I'll bet when the price of OLED 4k comes down to normal, there will still only be antenna, (commercial broadcast channels only) and expensive discs or d/l's to watch in true 4k., all because of corporate greed amongst the broadcasters.

For those who need to spend on 4k instead of a turbo, audition in 1080p., as that's what you will be watching most. You will also notice that the 4k sets do a very poor job at upconverting to 4k. Perhaps still too new, too expensive to solve the problems yet.



CERBERUS

[Atticus808]

Originally Posted by 53Driver

I don't think you need to "up your budget" I jst think you need to adjust it. No need to drop $1200-1500 on TV then piddle out $250-500 on sound system. I'm leaning the same direction as gramicci, sound is as important to the experience as visual. $650-800 will get you a very nice LED HDTV, so don't pair it will a $100 sound bar. Lots of wireless options these days too. The guy I work with picked up a BOSE surround sound system, all wireless from the receiver that you hook up to the TV I believe. He said he got it for around $800, shipped.

i've been searching for wireless but couldn't find shit.

i'm probably just being dumb. will look again

So consensus is that sound bars suck

Right now i'm my list to research/buy: LED TV, Wireless Surround Sound, Receiver

[53Driver]

Originally Posted by Atticus808

i've been searching for wireless but couldn't find shit.

i'm probably just being dumb. will look again

So consensus is that sound bars suck

Right now i'm my list to research/buy: LED TV, Wireless Surround Sound, Receiver

How about something like this? I'm not an audiophile so I know nothing about this company. I did a quick search for wireless myself but need more time. The Bose systems I looked at on Amazon all looked hard wired, not Wireless. I know they exist though, just not sure the price point.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_779S215...er-reviews-tab

[Atticus808]

Originally Posted by 53Driver

How about something like this? I'm not an audiophile so I know nothing about this company. I did a quick search for wireless myself but need more time. The Bose systems I looked at on Amazon all looked hard wired, not Wireless. I know they exist though, just not sure the price point.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_779S215...er-reviews-tab

seems like Samsung offers quite a few wireless ones

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Atticus808

surround

fuck i should just suck it up and make my living room 5.1 or 7.1.....

Forgot to talk about bass. Bass is important. Sound is transmitted through air pressure, so the biggest woofers with the most excursion and the most power will generate the most pressure will generate the most volume. Bigger woofers can also play lower. Some can go down to single digit frequencies and still play loud enough to rattle your teeth. It can get insane. There are a few different methods you can go for bass.

1. A horn. Horns are huge, hence my question about available space in the attic or subfloor. However, a single horn-loaded subwoofer with a little bit of power will shake dust from the ceiling, due to the acoustical amplification of the horn shape itself. It will sound extremely powerful and effortless and when the explosion goes off in the movie you will feel it in your chest instead of just hearing it with your ears. Tapped horns take up the least space because they don't have a separate compression chamber. You could put it above your ceiling firing down through an air vent. Horns will play very well and loudly within a specific frequency range dictated by their length, but above or below that they're pretty much useless. Fortunately, most bass horns are tuned for around 20 Hz, unless they're shooting for something specific, so they're generally good for 20-100 Hz, at which point you're crossing over to your mains anyways. The cool thing about horns is that their native amplification is enhanced by placing it along boundary walls. So a single driver horn that can hit 120 dB in an open field will be pushing 130+ when you put it in the corner of the room. Look up lilmike's lilwrecker for a good example of a reasonable tapped horn.

2. A ported box. These will be large. Also a ceiling or subfloor install. Ported boxes require a lot of power, whereas a horn only requires some. Ported boxes will reach down to the tuning frequency of their port. If the box is tuned for 25 Hz, then that's about as low as it will play before it starts losing efficiency. Low-tuned ported boxes are huge, and it's best to run multiples. Google the martysub for an example. Here's a thread about a smaller sub called the martycube, which is tuned for 17 Hz with an 18" driver and 1100w. It's actually not too big, you could put this in your living room without too much of an eyesore. Marty was the guy who first made the request to have something like this built.

3. A sealed box. Sealed boxes are smaller than ported boxes, but they require more power. However, a sealed box can play lower than either a ported box or a horn. The sealed air inside the box acts as a spring to keep the driver overrunning its excursion limits. It's still possible, but it's much much lower than a ported box. I know people that chase the sub-20 Hz numbers. At that point you can't even really hear it, but you can feel it shaking you and shaking your house. Granted, one of them has sixteen 18" subs on his front wall, too. That's excessive. You could do a single 15 disguised as an end table with a 500-1000w plate amp in the box and be fine, or you could do an 18" in one box and a 12" in another box, to better cover the frequency spectrum. Put them in different areas of the room.

4. POWER. More power = more bass. Plate amps go up to about 1000w before they get too expensive, but pro audio amps will go to 5-6000w and still be reasonably priced. Behringer is a good brand to start looking at. A lilwrecker horn really only needs 200-250w, while a sealed 18" would love 1500w+.

Get on www.avsforum.com and look at their DIY section. TONS of info. A good source for parts is www.parts-express.com.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by RFB

We still don't have full 1080p., can you imagine how long before a full 4k changeover !

As someone who relies solely on physical content and streaming media, my two primary sources of video entertainment already provide 4k resolution: YouTube and Netflix.

It's sooner than you think, but I agree that for most the current cost is not worth it.

[Quentin]

I hate that Panasonic is pretty much out of the TV business.


Sent from Tandy 400

[Tcoat]

You want something that lasts my mom rocked her 1966 RCA until last year! And both those 2 inch speakers made things sound like real life (or at least half as good as the stock FRS system).


Thanks a lot Gram! After reading your sound and bass posts I am re-evaluating my whole sound system and this is going to cost me.

[AsianStyle]

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

That chart basically tells you everything you need to know about 4k. The distance you sit from the tv, the size of the tv, and 4k content availability basically makes a 4k tv worthless. If you are using a 4k monitor where you sit about a foot away, then it makes more sense. Also, the curved screen is purely gimmick and if the curve is more aggressive it causes you to actually have a sweet spot on the tv before you get distortion. Lcd/leds already have pretty bad off angle viewing why they would want to enhance that makes no sense.

If you care about picture quality: oled > plasma > led (full array local dimming) >led (edge dimming) > everything else. This is with the caveat you are watching in a dark room. If you do most of your tv viewing in a bright light room the plasma will fall behind the led (full array local dimming). It seems like almost all tv manufacturers are selling for gimmicks and completely ignoring picture quality. Plasma is dead and full array local dimming is reserved for some high end models. Oled is the only hope we have of getting a decent picture on tvs. I saw your budget and know you can't swing the 3.5k oled, but if you stop by best buy I highly recommend taking a look at that and compare it to anything else.
http://www.cnet.com/products/lg-55ec9300/

Something within your budget I'd recommend looking at the vizio e or m series that have local dimming (if you do bright room viewing) or a samsung plasma (if you do dark room viewing)
http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-m652i-b2/
http://www.cnet.com/products/vizio-e550i-b2/
http://www.cnet.com/products/samsung-pn60f8500/

I agree sound is very important and agree that denon make excellent/reliable receivers. If you don't want to mess around with diy, I'd recommend the energy take classic copy by monoprice: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

[Vracer111]

If this is for sports and movies like you say and you can control light then go projector. Blu-Ray on a 110+ screen can't be beat. Once you go projector TV will not satisfy anymore for movies (especially with a good HT system.) I fully agree on sound importance... I'm more of an audiophile. Stay away from BOSE (not good quality speakers!) - you could piece together a nice system at a lower cost which blows the mediocre to poor audio quality of BOSE away. And when it comes to subs, get 2 or more for better evenness and presence.

One of my favorite movie openings for demo being played on my system...you want detail of sound of a good audio system (not BOSE), it makes for a really nice experience:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adog2vo_85U"]Epson HC-2 - YouTube[/ame]

I run NAD receiver and amps (2 channel for mains, 5 channel for center, surround, and rears) with Polk Audio RTi series speakers in a 7.2 configuration.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Thanks a lot Gram! After reading your sound and bass posts I am re-evaluating my whole sound system and this is going to cost me.

Hey, I'm here for you, man. Get on the AVS DIY forum and they'll show you a whole new world you never knew existed.

If you've got a big room, go to www.DIYSoundGroup.com look at the Fusion 12 Tempest or Fusion 15 Sentinel. This is genuinely top quality theater sound for cheaper than a pair of mediocre Polk towers from Best Buy. They're way overkill for a small room though.

I have a very small room (third bedroom). I'm going to be building three Volt 10 coaxes for my front stage and a pair of Volt 8's in the rear. For bass I'm going to build a microwrecker horn and tuck it into the closet area for 25-100 Hz and a sealed 18 for <25 Hz. When I grow up and get a real house, I'll move up to bigger speakers and a real theater setup.

Final thought: room treatments. Good speakers in a well-done room will sound amazing. Great speakers in a poor room will sound like crap. Look into absorptive and refractive panels. Both can be done DIY and decorated to match their surroundings. You don't need much, but a little sound absorption in the right place will work wonders on cleaning the sound up.

[rice_classic]

Early adoption is a sucker's tax, just like the lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

4k is even worse. It doesn't just need us to upgrade our TV's, it also needs us to upgrade our Internet Connections since A) 4k is really only available via online content right now and B) there's a good chance the future of television watching is going to be IP based a la Netflix and even traditional channels becoming online sub-based (like HBO and CBS offering IP subscription packages, most likely in preparation for future 4k viability).

Ok, makes sense you say... but let's face it most of America isn't exactly benefiting from robust competition between ISPs... oh yeah and there's that whole net neutrality fiasco going on right now too.

With that being said, if I had to buy another TV and had a $2500-or-so budget, I would be looking at a flat 4K TV.

[gt8613]

4k is a gimmick per some.



Anyway both my family's tv are Sony XBRs and they seem to be quite good. I don't like Samsung as a company and brand but that's just me. Sony has truer color whereas Samsung has better contrast/fake color/make up.



They sure are nice to look at though

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by gt8613

4k is a gimmick per some.



Anyway both my family's tv are Sony XBRs and they seem to be quite good. I don't like Samsung as a company and brand but that's just me. Sony has truer color whereas Samsung has better contrast/fake color/make up.



They sure are nice to look at though

I think my next TV will be a Sony since Panasonic plasma is dead. Like you, I am not a big fan of Samsung as a company. They flood the market with "paper" products -- products that are all about looking great on paper for a price point more than anything else -- and this drives companies that do one thing well out. Most casual buyers don't spend a lot of time comparing electronics side by side so they pick the highest model with the highest refresh rate or the most HDMI ports in their price range. It might functionally be shit comparatively but they don't give the other brand a shot because it doesn't look as good on paper.

BTW, I'm not saying all Samsung products are bad. They have good ones. They just have a decent number that I've just been wholly unimpressed with despite being great on paper.


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