Is it fixable?

[tyrantcf]

+1 on the go for write off.

[FRS Dad]

First post. Sorry about the circumstances (and the length). I was an adjuster for a decade or so, so I may be able to offer some insight and clarification. With respect to liability, if you come to a stop in traffic and then are rear ended into the car in front of you, you have no liability.

A following driver owes no duty to stop a certain distance behind another stopped vehicle, and he doesn't owe a duty to anticipate what his car might do if struck from behind by another car and leave a greater interval as a result. (i do by habit now as the result of having been an adjuster).

Damage discrepancy front vs rear can be caused by height variations among the three cars and how the bumpers align. If a low riding car like the FRS is pushed into a car or truck with a higher bumper, you'll see that kind of damage with the front fascia destroyed and the hood tented up because parts that weren't intended to absorb an impact did so.

Our guy is in the clear. The guy who sandwiched him owes both for his car and damage to the car he was pushed into.

With respect to repairable vs total loss, a seasoned adjuster who's been burned a few times by paying several thousand dollars extra repairing a car that should have been totalled will take a few extra steps to prevent that sort of thing.

The right way is to pay the shop (any shop at this point) a half day or so to do a tear down and pull all the damaged plastic and sheet metal off so you get a clear view of any underlying mechanical or structural stuff that could come back to bite you. Then and only then should the initial repair estimate be written. Skipping the tear down can result in a low initial estimate, which can incorrectly tip the car into the "repairable" column. Unfortunately, once repairs are underway it's too late and that's how a total loss gets repaired.

If after a tear down and comprehensive estimate the car is repairable (value of the car plus tax and less salvage recovery is greater than cost to repair plus a small margin for supplemental damage plus rental car expense) and you don't want it repaired you have a few options, all of which suck to some extent.

1) Have your own insurance company write an estimate and do their own total loss analysis. If you go with their numbers you'll owe your collision deductible and may not have rental however your carrier will recover both their expenses and your deductible from the at fault drivers carrier and reimburse you for the deductible at some point. Best of all the at fault carrier can't argue with your carriers decision or the amount they paid. All they can do is write a check. This is not considered a chargeable loss and will not increase your premium on your policy. Seriously.

2) Remember that you are never obligated to go thru insurance at all. The at fault driver personally owes to restore you to a pre-loss state. You're free to file a small claims lawsuit against him directly, and his insurance company owes him a defense and owes to pay whatever judgment you win, while simultaneously being cut out of the process. (The maximum amount you can sue for in small claims is limited by your jurisdiction so confirm that limit first.)

Once faced with this claims-handling nightmare, most adjusters will find a way to settle the claim to your satisfaction. (I just did that exact thing myself against State Farm last year, except they went ahead and hired an attorney and took the case all the way to trial. I still won but it created a lot of extra work.)

3) Have the repair check written to you and your lienholder. Pay the loan off with the proceeds. (You may need to come out of pocket some depending on equity) Sell the salvage piece yourself and hopefully get close to whole.

My recommendation in this case would be to request a tear down if they haven't done so already, and ask to be present once the tear down is completed and the estimate is written. Ideally the tear down needs to happen at the shop doing the work, and you can arrange for the shop owner or manager to be present for the estimate as well. Three sets of eyes and all. I always welcomed that input as an adjuster and if yours doesn't there's a problem.

No adjuster wants to commit to repairing a car that should have totalled. Total losses are an adjusters best friend...you write one check and you're done. Big repairs take weeks and weeks of monitoring and reinspecting and rental car extensions. Trust me...we love to total stuff.

For shop choice, if you have a trusted shop based on prior experience go there. (Generally stay clear of the dealership body shops unless you already have a trusted relationship.)

If you don't know a good shop based on previous work, an independent shop that handles high end work (Mercedes/BMW/Audi etc) is a safe bet. Their customers are incredibly picky and they typically have the best techs and equipment.

Finally, most insurance carriers have preferred repaired facilities and will offer a satisfaction guarantee if you use "their" shop. I always offered our preferred shop but on a heavy hit it was a relief when they didn't take me up on it, because I knew I was stuck with that car forever.

If they took my check and went somewhere else and then hated the repair, i was completely off the hook and they had to hash it out with the shop themselves. Otherwise me and the preferred shop had to bend over backwards to make it right, up to and including a couple of instances where we as the insurance company bought the car back. essentially paying both to repair and to total the same car. (See why seasoned adjusters pay for tear downs?)

if you don't have a trusted shop by all means used the carrier's preferred shop and make your problems the adjusters problems as well.

If you want to scan or PDF the estimate by PM or posting I can let you know what you're dealing with. Good luck!

[Demandred7]

My condolences to your car and hopefully everyone is ok. I am by no means an expert, but, I'd be surprised if it doesn't get written off. I would want it written off. Unless the shop is full of miracle workers, the car will never be the same again. Good luck.

[JustDoItMikey]

Wow that sucks man. I agree with what a lot of others have said, go for having it totaled. No matter how good a shop is the car will never be 100%. If insurance will not total it research and find a great shop and be sure to ask about the shops warranty or if your insurance has a recommended shop that they will warranty the work from. Also be sure you get a fat check for diminished value so you can buy mods

[FRS Dad]

Originally Posted by JustDoItMikey

Wow that sucks man. I agree with what a lot of others have said, go for having it totaled. No matter how good a shop is the car will never be 100%. If insurance will not total it research and find a great shop and be sure to ask about the shops warranty or if your insurance has a recommended shop that they will warranty the work from. Also be sure you get a fat check for diminished value so you can buy mods

GA is one of the few states that allow for a separate action for diminished value. Fake injury claims is how it's done in most other states.

Unfortunately the decision by the insurance company to either pay for the repair or pay for a total loss isn't up to the owner. Just remember that the adjuster wants a heavy hit totalled as much as you do, but if the economics don't work, they don't work.

Most folks with heavy damage want the car totalled, but not always. If the car is still new and the loan payoff exceeds the value and there's no gap coverage on the loan, totalling the car leaves the owner with no car, and an unpaid balance on the totalled car as well.

It's hard to tell from the photos so far, but unless it got into the engine somehow that does look repairable. The trunk floor would be my biggest concern since that's a factory welded unitized panel that's very labor intensive to section out and replace. Some minor distortion can be pulled out and repaired, refinished and have corrosion protection replaced, but some shops figure if it's hidden under the trunk liner who cares.

[xRavenFRSx]

Originally Posted by Manic

Looks much worse than it is IMO. Should be able to fix, but if it were me, I'd go for the write-off.

Exactly what I was getting ready post. It can be repaired, and a diminished value claim could get you a check for loss in value (insurance will try to avoid this but it can be done) but it seems like a roll of the dice to get a proper repair that won't be in some way noticeable or result in rattling panels and bad fitment. I would try for a new one.

[paulca]

Don't forget the whiplash claim...

[Zozr]

Originally Posted by paulca

Don't forget the whiplash claim...

'Murica

[paulca]

Originally Posted by Zozr

'Murica

Eh? I figured you guys started the whole claim culture, do you mean you can't claim personal injury or that you do automatically?

[J_kennington]

Originally Posted by FRS Dad

First post. Sorry about the circumstances (and the length). I was an adjuster for a decade or so, so I may be able to offer some insight and clarification. With respect to liability, if you come to a stop in traffic and then are rear ended into the car in front of you, you have no liability.

While this is mostly true. If car 2 hit car 1 first, then was hit by car 3. Car 2 pays for car 1, and car 3 pays for rear damage on car 2. I went through this in December. I was car 1. Rear ended by car 2. Car 2 claimed a 3rd vehicle rear ended her and left. Since I felt one bump, it was deemed car 3 pushed car 2 into me. Car 3 was responsible for all damage. If I had felt 2 bumps, car 2 would be responsible for her front and my rear. Car 3 would be responsible for car 2s rear and car 3s front.

So, if OP hit car 1 first, then car 3 hit him. He DOES have fault.

[Amir Ghadiri]

I know we all want a new car if someone were to hit us, myself included, but in reality it's not always necessary. I see around $10-12k in damage, so you're fairly close to Wisconsin's 70% threshold. So far I see around $4k in rear end damage (including new trunk floor), $5-7k in front, as well as the new driver airbag. You will need all new front radiator supports and fender extensions, and possibly new front fender apron reinforcements (these can easily be hammered out but with the radiator supports already removed your shop may opt to replace them). The rear might need a slight pull if it crumpled at the left shock tower, but I don't think it did. A picture of the rear with the trunk closed would help a lot in this regard. I've rebuilt a few of these cars with similar damage so I am speaking just off experience, your car could very easily be rebuilt, but since you're so close to your state's threshold you should push for a total loss. As others have mentioned, pay a shop for half a day to do the initial tear down and find any hidden damage (there will be a lot). Take it to the most expensive body shop you can find for this service, and have them set as your primary repair facility. If they charge more for labor, your repair will will obviously go up. The liable party's insurance will be forced to pay whatever your body shop charges (within reason). This seems like your most realistic route to a total loss claim. Best of luck, I'm sorry you're being forced through this.

[FRS Dad]

Originally Posted by J_kennington

While this is mostly true. If car 2 hit car 1 first, then was hit by car 3. Car 2 pays for car 1, and car 3 pays for rear damage on car 2. I went through this in December. I was car 1. Rear ended by car 2. Car 2 claimed a 3rd vehicle rear ended her and left. Since I felt one bump, it was deemed car 3 pushed car 2 into me. Car 3 was responsible for all damage. If I had felt 2 bumps, car 2 would be responsible for her front and my rear. Car 3 would be responsible for car 2s rear and car 3s front.

So, if OP hit car 1 first, then car 3 hit him. He DOES have fault.

Exactly. Had the OP struck the car ahead and then been pushed into it a second time, he would owe the rear end damage on the car ahead, and some portion of his own front end damage. The key is the statement of the front car's driver and how many impacts he recalls.

Since the OP indicated liability had been resolved in his favor, my presumption was that the at fault carrier had ruled out two impacts to the front car.

[FRS Dad]

Originally Posted by Amir Ghadiri

I know we all want a new car if someone were to hit us, myself included, but in reality it's not always necessary. I see around $10-12k in damage, so you're fairly close to Wisconsin's 70% threshold. So far I see around $4k in rear end damage (including new trunk floor), $5-7k in front, as well as the new driver airbag. You will need all new front radiator supports and fender extensions, and possibly new front fender apron reinforcements (these can easily be hammered out but with the radiator supports already removed your shop may opt to replace them). The rear might need a slight pull if it crumpled at the left shock tower, but I don't think it did. A picture of the rear with the trunk closed would help a lot in this regard. I've rebuilt a few of these cars with similar damage so I am speaking just off experience, your car could very easily be rebuilt, but since you're so close to your state's threshold you should push for a total loss. As others have mentioned, pay a shop for half a day to do the initial tear down and find any hidden damage (there will be a lot). Take it to the most expensive body shop you can find for this service, and have them set as your primary repair facility. If they charge more for labor, your repair will will obviously go up. The liable party's insurance will be forced to pay whatever your body shop charges (within reason). This seems like your most realistic route to a total loss claim. Best of luck, I'm sorry you're being forced through this.

Not exactly. The carrier owes to repair the car at the prevailing market rates for labor in the area. While an owner can always choose a more expensive shop, the difference in cost between the prevailing rate and the shop rate is the owner's problem and would not affect the total loss analysis, which only needs to reflect what the car can be fixed for in that market.

[FRS Dad]

Originally Posted by xRavenFRSx

Exactly what I was getting ready post. It can be repaired, and a diminished value claim could get you a check for loss in value (insurance will try to avoid this but it can be done) but it seems like a roll of the dice to get a proper repair that won't be in some way noticeable or result in rattling panels and bad fitment. I would try for a new one.

There really is no way to "go for" the write off. The numbers are what they are, provided the estimate is thorough and accurate. Literally every owner of a car in a loss that renders the car non-driveable wants it to be totalled. Were drivers responsible to carry liability coverage that would replace every car they hit regardless of the cost of repair, most drivers could not afford insurance.

Unrealized DOV is not a recognized element in most states. The prevailing theory is that a properly repaired vehicle is by definition restored to its pre-loss condition and no further indemnification is required. However, if the DOV was realized, ie the owner at some point sells or trades the car at an amount significantly below market value and he can attribute the difference entirely to the fact that at one point the car had been in an accident, that may be actionable.

Florida does not recognize DOV claims. Not sure about the OP's home state.