Have you ever Asked Yourself?

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by subwaynm

I've only driven this little Gem of a Car now for two weeks but I've read a bunch about how it lacks power... Well today I was driving around town like city driving and happen to come to me that I was going through the first four gears and wasn't much over 40mph???? The question came to me that just maybe it's geared to close in ratio??
Even if one through first four were close and five & six were for highway gears or just six even maybe the car would have more to offer on the toped.

This was the same problem with the VW Beetle until they came out with the Super Beetle that came out with another Ring/Pinon gear along with a different final drive gear.

Just wondering if anyone else has had these same thoughts and what your actual thoughts are on this topic?

Thanks for sharing your opinions

Geared too close? You do realize that spreading out the ratios would reduce the acceleration, not improve it, right? Adding a taller set of gears would hurt the top end performance (though it would improve gas mileage).

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by subwaynm

I'll keep that in mind; thanks

I just wish we had a little more mph without such high rpm's

You could get a custom differential with a slightly taller (numerically lower) gear than the stock 3.73. I too enjoy holding gear a bit longer, though it depends on the car and overall setup to be sure.

[PNW FRS]

Wow... use your right foot to press the rectangular pedal... push it far enough to get the revs up... and I think you'll find that you won't go through Gears 1-4 so quickly... and you should notice that the car is moving at a decent speed..

Don't drive it like a Beetle... drive it like a Honda S2000... git the revs UP!!

[ih8rain]

This thread rocks!

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by mrlewistan

i want more power for the highway. It feels under par on strait interstates where all cars are going around 80mph. It drives just fine in the city tho. Very comfortable

I can cruise at 80-100 comfortably in 5th (okay, I'm pushing the top of 5th at 100) no trouble. It's so ludicrously easy to reach 100 in this car that it's nearly plaid

Originally Posted by OICU812

If you expected more power you bought wrong car. If you want more and love the car there are plenty of options for super chargers and turbos. This kind of conversation has been beat to death here, literally lol.

Hell, headers & a tune to get some more power (but more importantly, get rid of the torque dip) will do it for some folks.

This little car has gobs of potential.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Rico415]

Originally Posted by subwaynm

I've only driven this little Gem of a Car now for two weeks but I've read a bunch about how it lacks power... Well today I was driving around town like city driving and happen to come to me that I was going through the first four gears and wasn't much over 40mph???? The question came to me that just maybe it's geared to close in ratio??
Even if one through first four were close and five & six were for highway gears or just six even maybe the car would have more to offer on the toped.

This was the same problem with the VW Beetle until they came out with the Super Beetle that came out with another Ring/Pinon gear along with a different final drive gear.

Just wondering if anyone else has had these same thoughts and what your actual thoughts are on this topic?

Thanks for sharing your opinions

Beetles and super beetles had the same drive train. Engine and transmission.

The only real difference was McPherson Struts and larger front brakes on the super for a larger luggage compartment and better handling.

73 Supers started a bigger padded dash and curved aerodynamic windshield. European S models came with front disc brakes...

I personally owned both a 73 standard growing up and drove a 73 super daily for 15 years.

And nothing was more fun to drive than a rear drive boxer engine light weight car... 50HP talk about underpowered... but fun as hell, original drift buggy...

[subwaynm]

Originally Posted by Rico415

Beetles and super beetles had the same drive train. Engine and transmission.

The only real difference was McPherson Struts and larger front brakes on the super for a larger luggage compartment and better handling.

73 Supers started a bigger padded dash and curved aerodynamic windshield. European S models came with front disc brakes...

I personally owned both a 73 standard growing up and drove a 73 super daily for 15 years.

And nothing was more fun to drive than a rear drive boxer engine light weight car... 50HP talk about underpowered... but fun as hell, original drift buggy...

The Beetle & Supers came with the same engines yes , but the granny's were different. The Super came with a different Ring/Pinion(4:12 or 3:88) also a different final gear which was later dubbed the "Freeway Flyer". Most Beetle owners that plan to do a bit of Highway Driving change them out for the famed Freeway Flyers for lower RPM at Highway Speeds. Example my Super can run at 3700RPM at 75MPH where a standard Beetle with stock Trans will be screaming at 4800RPM same speed.
I've had Six Supers and one Beetle and still have a full custom 73. Just had the 73' out on I 25 tonight and ran 85mph at 4500rpm for 40 miles, and still getting 31 mpg with Dual 40 mm Webers

:thumb up I agree nothing more fun than driving them with a Big Bore Flat out on the interstate, and watching folks reactions as you pass them up really quickly in an old Beetle

[subwaynm]

Originally Posted by chrisl

Geared too close? You do realize that spreading out the ratios would reduce the acceleration, not improve it, right? Adding a taller set of gears would hurt the top end performance (though it would improve gas mileage).

Yes I do but then I'm not talking about spreading all of the gears just the sixth gear and presuming that your top speed desired was already obtained through 1-5 it would help maintain the speed if not allowing a slight increase and lowering the RPM's along with slightly improving MPG. As with an overdrive gear. I like the bottom gear ratio's and agree that the acceleration is good and needed for the purpose the car was built for.

[subwaynm]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

You could get a custom differential with a slightly taller (numerically lower) gear than the stock 3.73. I too enjoy holding gear a bit longer, though it depends on the car and overall setup to be sure.

Good point and something I might want to look into. The first five are fine in my humble opinion, just the final drive gear for my purposes I would prefer a overdrive gear for the final for Highway driving.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by bestwheelbase

You could get a custom differential with a slightly taller (numerically lower) gear than the stock 3.73. I too enjoy holding gear a bit longer, though it depends on the car and overall setup to be sure.

I thought the stock FR-S's differential ratio was 4.10 .... ??

humfrz

[SirBrass]

The manual & auto final drive ratios are different with the auto having the suckier one.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[Hanni_0176]

Oh man, where to begin...

Originally Posted by subwaynm

I've only driven this little Gem of a Car now for two weeks but I've read a bunch about how it lacks power... Well today I was driving around town like city driving and happen to come to me that I was going through the first four gears and wasn't much over 40mph???? The question came to me that just maybe it's geared to close in ratio??
Even if one through first four were close and five & six were for highway gears or just six even maybe the car would have more to offer on the toped.

This was the same problem with the VW Beetle until they came out with the Super Beetle that came out with another Ring/Pinon gear along with a different final drive gear.

Just wondering if anyone else has had these same thoughts and what your actual thoughts are on this topic?

Thanks for sharing your opinions

For cruising rpm's, yes the car does shift quick. For normal commutes (and when the engine is cold), I typically shift at 3k rpm's. At 40 mph, I'm in 5th gear, and at 50 mph, I'm in 6th gear. This is a close-ratio transmission, so I see nothing wrong with this. In the 5MT's I've owned in the past, I'd be in 5th gear at 50 mph, so there's not really any difference (i.e final gear at 50 mph). It's called cruising rpm's for a reason.

Making the ratios taller wouldn't help with lack of power. In fact, it does the opposite. For reference, the AT has wider gears than the MT.

You mention the "toped," I assume top end... but have you ever tried to push the car that high? With the current gearing, the car has a potential top speed of 168, but the car lacks the amount of hp/lb to reach it, limiting the car to 143 mph top speed. Taller gears won't help you go any faster. May I ask though... do you ever plan on exceeding 143 mph?

Originally Posted by R.S-HawK

The car works pretty well from 0-70mph, then again, I drive an automatic, so shifting through the first three sets is effortless.

Upwards of that, toque is non-existent. I can cook myself breakfast while getting the car from 70-100mph. It's frustrating when your main transportation routes are highways, but I still love it when I get the car into the some back roads on the weekends and keep the revs in the upper range.

I've never driven the AT, so maybe the acceleration from 70-100 mph is weak with the taller gears. My car is also lightly modded, and I never tried to take the car above 80 mph before the mods, so that may bias my experience. The temperatures are a bit colder right now, too. However, my car accelerates from 70-100 mph within a few seconds. Redlining in 4th gear takes me over 100 mph.

Originally Posted by subwaynm

My car is only two weeks old 375mi; so I'm not trying to hit 7,000 rpm, and even after break in I'd rather not run it that hard if I had a choice. Just my driving style I would guess.

After reading through these post I guess I do drive a little on the conservative side. Well will see after break in and t hen push it. For now I keep it around 3500RPM for shifting. :-)

To each his own. If you bought this car with the intention of keeping it below 5000 rpm, you may have bought the wrong car. The FA20 engine builds peak torque at 6600 rpm's. In other words, this engine is designed to operate at higher rpm's. The torque (and horsepower) dip of our cars tells a pretty good story about engine operation, if you ask me. The first dip begins at roughly 3200 rpm's, which puts the first powerband at 2k-3k rpm's for cruising acceleration. The dip ends at roughly 4800 rpm's, which puts our second powerband at 5k-redline for heavier acceleration.

If you wanted more grunt down low, you probably purchased the wrong car. With that said, I kept my car below 3200 rpm's during break-in, so I understand your position here. However, I think once you are done with break-in and get to push the car into it's second powerband a couple of times, you're entire perspective about this car will change.

Originally Posted by mrlewistan

i want more power for the highway. It feels under par on strait interstates where all cars are going around 80mph. It drives just fine in the city tho. Very comfortable

I can sell you the secrets to more power on the highway for just $9.95, and if you order now, I'll even toss in an additional DVD for free. Supplies are limited, and you don't want to miss the amazing offer, so please call now.

Jokes aside though... the secret... is... (downshift)

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Exactly.. My E36 M3 needed another cog as the 5 speed manual begged to be shifted one more time when in 5th.. 70 mph would be like 3300 rpms..
Geared low and perfect for city.. But it was not a relaxed hwy cruiser..

70 mph in this car is at about 3300 rpm's too...

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

I just wish we had 500-1000 more rpms to make some more power.

It sucks that power takes a shit after 7k rpm.

If the car had a higher redline and was capable of generating peak horsepower at a higher rpm, the separation between horsepower and low-end torque would be even worse. People already complain about the low-end torque as is.

Originally Posted by subwaynm

I'll keep that in mind; thanks

I just wish we had a little more mph without such high rpm's

Unfortunately, you bought the wrong car for that. If you want to be operating at low rpm's at higher mph's, you need wider gears. If you want more power at lower rpm's, you need more low-end torque. Fortunately, these are both things you can change by modifying your car. A set of 3.73 gears would widen you up a bit, and there are several forced induction options that generate peak torque at low rpm's (with a flat torque curve).

[mrlewistan]

@hanni, lol i know to downshift. but just comfort driving, its nice not having to do that and just using the gas pedal. i guess im just too spoiled on an auto transmission cause the frs is my first manual car (first manual being a motorcycle)

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I thought the stock FR-S's differential ratio was 4.10 .... ??

humfrz

MT 3.73
AT 4.10