Car Advice: 'Toyota 86 to undercut VW Golf GTI'

[Nardi330]

i really think they are just playing game with Subaru.

spread rumour of highish price then when Subaru announces the price, they undercut them substaintially.

or so i wish lol

[Staticfrost]

Originally Posted by Nardi330

i really think they are just playing game with Subaru.

spread rumour of highish price then when Subaru announces the price, they undercut them substaintially.

or so i wish lol

That would be lovely.

[Staticfrost]

Originally Posted by davey90

x3

Also asked them that on twitter but no answer :'(

[Nafe]

Dimik - i know which I'd rather be in at a set of lights too, and it isn't a WRX. Each to their own.
While I agree that $50k is too much for a high spec, it isn't "unreasonable" to ask it when MX5 is over $50k for a top spec....
Apparently a WRX Premium is just over $48k drive away.... Interesting. That has navi and sunroof, but from what I can tell it doesn't have push button start or HIDs. In all honesty, the 86 top spec shouldn't be as expensive as a WRX top spec, but it's a more niche market than the WRX.
The regular WRX is just over $44k.
I would still prefer the 86 to the wrx though. STI would be sick, but they start at $65k or $71k for the spec R

[Nardi330]

All WRX has factory HID, premium or not.

Definitely no push button start tho.

MX5 is way overpriced and top spec has power roof, Recaro seats and BBS wheels tho.

[70NYD]

We need to stop comparing this car to a mx5, whose closest rival is a z4 in terms of class due to no roadsters here

[Nafe]

Originally Posted by Nardi330

All WRX has factory HID, premium or not.

Cool, I was just going by what the subaru website said. No mention of HID's on standard WRX

Definitely no push button start tho.

MX5 is way overpriced and top spec has power roof, Recaro seats and BBS wheels tho.

Yeah it does. I know all the specs of the MX5. But at the same time it doesn't have push button start or Navi either. Even the hard top wihtout BBS or recaros is over $50k.... And the "basic" softop, non leather manual is $48k
MX5 may be overpriced, but it is the only *similar* car from Japan. Small, light, rwd sports coupe. yes it's a convertible and yes it is a two seater, but it has the same basic principles behind it.
I am not marketing either car, but toyota will be targeting MX5 customers.

[Nafe]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

We need to stop comparing this car to a mx5, whose closest rival is a z4 in terms of class due to no roadsters here

I don't think we do. As said above, yes MX5 is a 2 seat convertible, but it is the only similar car available. People looking at MX5's will now be looking at the 86, particularly if pricing is reasonable. That is a fact.
And likewise, alot of the older people considering 86 will already be looking at mx5. "Oh it is like an mx5 but more practical and more powerful"
You and I being enthusiasts may not think they are comparable, but in alot of ways they really are.

[Nafe]

The mx5 is MUCH more comparable than alot of the other cars it gets compared too...

[JDM-20L]

Originally Posted by Nafe

I don't think we do. As said above, yes MX5 is a 2 seat convertible, but it is the only similar car available.

This is not true..

There is the 1 Series coupe'

More powerful (125i), better appointed, better build quality alas more expensive and higher kerb weight.. obviously would not have the same log CG as the 86 but all BMW's are 50:50 weight distribution which makes for a well handling drive.

This is my next option if I'm not happy with the 86 costing

[Nafe]

The 1series is sporty, but it's not a sports car. Performance driving wasn't why it was designed. But truth be told, i had forgotten about it :P
I do quite like the 1 coupes though. They are a cute little car. Build quality is debatable. Check out the warranty claims for bmw vs toyota Higher specification, yes, but warranty = faults = poorer build quality. I haven't personally looked at this for the 1series, but in the past, euro cars have always been way less reliable than Japanese cars. Maybe BMW have rectified this with the newer models.
And as for the Z4 series one, that's not a new car. I was talking about like for like new cars.
There is no z4 coupe anymore.

** and a new lower model Z4 is $80k plus. Double the cost!!

[JDM-20L]

I don't think many manufacturers can hang with BMW's shit when it comes to building a solid well balanced and handling platform... I would not be writing the 1 series off as a sports car, the handling they offer is quite exceptional.

Without a doubt there is niggly little shit that DOES indeed go wrong with these BMW's that NORMALLY wouldn't on a Jap car, but its one of those take the good and the bad situations as far as I'm concerned a Lexus & BMW are just NOT the same car, I wouldn't be confusing reliability and durability however & I don't doubt for a moment most cases of catastrophic failures is attributed to poor owner maintenance.

Anyhow... all that bullshit aside its a pretty long way out of the "anticipated ballpark" of the 86.

[zygrene]

Some of you need to be more realistic and stop saying "the BRZ/FR-S/FT86 is in a different market than the GTI/WRX/etc." Realistically speaking, the vast majority of customers in the market for a sub-$30k "sporty" car aren't specifically looking for a totally driver-centric, RWD sports car with LSD and whatnot. They base their often limited knowledge on appearance, engine specs, acceleration, space, fuel efficiency and price. So for them, I think the GTI, WRX, Mazda3, GenCoupe, etc are all viable options to pick from.

For the more hardcore enthusiasts, of course the BRZ isn't in the same league as econobox hot hatches or w/e, but I think we're a minority among people looking at these cars.

[Nafe]

Haha i don't confuse reliability with durability. In my line of work I have to understand both BUT reliability is a big part of quality. How can a car that is unreliable (comparatively speaking) be a good quality? If it breaks down it is quality. Ok so the door cards might be a bit more durable and stay shiny longer, but that doesn't keep the car on the road. durability and reliabilty are both factors of quality.
And saying that you just accept the shit that is niggly is fine, but at the end of the day it still affects reliabiltiy and quality. I can't be taking time off work to regularly take my car into the workshop for warranty repairs.
With regards to not many manufactures building cars that handle as well as bmw's, I am not going to comment too much on that, but just going to say I don't 100% agree.
We will just wait and see how the 125i and the 86 compare on road as far as handling goes