If 2014 was the last model year for the twins...

[DoomsdayJesus]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

You're right, geographically speaking public transit will never work for the 'majority' of the US. In college I had access to a public transit system in a small town that made owning a car less convenient than public transit, guess I'm spoiled.

I guess you haven't seen one yet, autonomous cars are better than 95% of the other drivers I share the road with. They don't need to segregate traffic, the car is 'smart' enough and safer than most drivers.

I've read plenty about the google cars, here's the difference. Google has fleet maintained vehicles. For the same reason cabbies pick up used Crown Vics, they're pretty much impeccably maintained.

Transfer that to private ownership. We see hoopties all the time that are uninsured, poorly maintained, and the second there's a major failure in electronics or mechanics at considerable speed, you're screwed. Or a pedestrian is screwed. Drivers simply won't be paying attention to react in time, and if the solution is slamming the brakes, someone else will hit them. I love the write-up on their cars that says they have 1M miles with no "at-fault" accidents; I wonder how many of the not-at-faults were easily avoidable but uncorrected by the computer? Yesterday I had someone try to change lanes into me, and I was up against a median. I slammed the brakes and hit the horn, and they got back in their lane. No matter how advanced automations get, they're no substitute for an attentive driver in some cases.

[Goneau]

I'd have to go with the crowd on this one, I'd spend 1500 on a beat up Honda and garage it lol
I baby it as it is but it would definitely be cool to have one if it were so limited

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

No matter how advanced automations get, they're no substitute for an attentive driver in some cases.

You didn't watch the video did you? They showed that happening, a truck changing lanes without looking, the automated car avoided the incident (slammed on the brakes) and the truck left the road (drunk driver?) and came to a stop. As for the "not at fault" accidents here's the list so far:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_..._car#Incidents

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

Transfer that to private ownership. We see hoopties all the time that are uninsured, poorly maintained, and the second there's a major failure in electronics or mechanics at considerable speed, you're screwed.

Yay reliability engineering! The nice thing is that these won't be cheap, people will pay the price for the first few generations, you're looking at 5+ years after implementation before there are poorly maintained "hooptie" automated cars. You're also assuming that there won't be legally mandated inspections of automated systems, many states mandate vehicle safety inspections:

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States"]Vehicle inspection in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

[Turbowned]

I'd be sad, honestly because it would dampen the efforts of manufacturers trying to make sports cars in the future. Think about it, these cars were looked at as the sports car messiah; how would it look if they had to cancel production after just 2 short years? You better believe the automakers of the world would be skittish to introduce any new sports cars to market!

[448hpsti]

I'd buy a 3rd

[DoomsdayJesus]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Yay reliability engineering! The nice thing is that these won't be cheap, people will pay the price for the first few generations, you're looking at 5+ years after implementation before there are poorly maintained "hooptie" automated cars. You're also assuming that there won't be legally mandated inspections of automated systems, many states mandate vehicle safety inspections:

Vehicle inspection in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Have you driven in a major city recently? PA has mandatory safety inspections. A ridiculous percentage of cars in Philly obviously violate them or get stickers from other cars, or operate without a current sticker. They get seized if they're caught, they go buy another train wreck at the local auction, and cancel the liability insurance they needed to drive off the lot. It's a massive problem everywhere.

Not to mention, if including electronics like that the price would skyrocket for inspections alone, not including maintenance. I really don't see a scenario where they ever take over/become mandatory, become affordable for most drivers, attractive to drivers, or go anything past flying-car novelty. Time will tell, but this isn't the future of cars.

The best application for this technology will be the enhancement of collision avoidance technologies, which I'm really interested to see long-term reliability on. Not to mention, I really wonder how many of the sensors outside of the car (like Jeep and Mercedes adaptive cruise control) will last with environmental exposure or operate in inclement weather. How long until they start producing false readings from hazy lenses, bug splatter, and other similar issues?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

Have you driven in a major city recently?

I really don't see a scenario where they ever take over/become mandatory, become affordable for most drivers, attractive to drivers, or go anything past flying-car novelty. Time will tell, but this isn't the future of cars.

I drive in San Francisco regularly, I have seen self driving cars on 101 freeway in heavy traffic, by far they are the safest drivers I see. I suppose we will have to agree to disagree and leave the fate up to time and those developing the technology. Greater men have been more wrong than either of us.

"Electricity is the thing. There are no whirring and grinding gears with their numerous levers to confuse. There is not that almost terrifying uncertain throb and whirr of the powerful combustion engine. There is no water circulating system to get out of order – no dangerous and evil-smelling gasoline and no noise."
-Thomas Edison, 1903

"There is not the slightest indication that nuclear energy will ever be obtainable. It would mean the atom would have to be shattered at will."
-Albert Einstein

[gily25]

I always bring my perspective from the XT and MR2 productions so I'd expect 6-10 years of this car. If they quit after 2 I'd be quite shocked because it'd seem like a poor investment strategy for a corporation. If they do quit after 2 years I'll assume it got replaced by something else.

[regal]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

I would be happy that there weren't any more of these threads.
.

I like this thread, people are too uptight here.

If you've followed the Auto industry for 30 years, you know anything can happen. The only thing that stays the same is change.

That being said if this is your DD it would suck major balls if this car was discontinued. Anyone who has had any warranty work done knows how expensive powertrain parts are for this car. I'm talking Porsche expensive.

Believe it or not the '93 Civic used to have very expensive parts. Because of its popularity companies started cranking out OE and OE equivalent parts by the millions. Ten years after its intro I remember replacing the radiator, water pump, and timing belt for $150 with all new parts.

Rare vehicles become collectors items because they are too expensive to maintain due to the lack of a parts supplier base, a lot of them end up crushed. You never make money on a car anyway, even like new Supras don't sell for more than MSRP.

I could seriously see Toyota pulling out of this car if sales don't stay strong, but I think Subaru has learned this is a good market for them so hopefully we will see a half million of these vehicles sold over the next decade.

[Laika]

I fully believe (optimistically) that we're at the very start of a sports car renaissance. This car is just the beginning.

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Laika

I fully believe (optimistically) that we're at the very start of a sports car renaissance. This car is just the beginning.

I really hope that's the case.

As for the original premise? I would be very sad if this were the last model year for the twins. I'm a huge fan of inexpensive fun cars, and even with the BRZ on the market, I still wish there were more options. Yes, I know several of you like the idea of owning something "limited" or "rare", but I kind of feel the opposite - the more small, sporty cars are out there, the better life will be for car enthusiasts.

[Laika]

Originally Posted by chrisl

the more small, sporty cars are out there, the better life will be for car enthusiasts.

And as importantly, MORE people will go back to the great joy of driving!

"Driving isn't about going from point A to point B, it is the point"

The reason not so many people are interested in cars these days is because of the lack of options that are affordable and fun in the USA. The more car enthusiasts that are out there, the safer I'll feel on the road (think Miata crowd).

[DoomsdayJesus]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

"Electricity is the thing. There are no whirring and grinding gears with their numerous levers to confuse. There is not that almost terrifying uncertain throb and whirr of the powerful combustion engine. There is no water circulating system to get out of order – no dangerous and evil-smelling gasoline and no noise."
-Thomas Edison, 1903

Also the same man who wanted everyone's house to be hooked up to a short range DC current and villainized Nikola Tesla through a series of ridiculous publicity stunts to push his drastically more inefficient distribution system.

Regardless of what great men think, that's different from what the mass consumer thinks and will consider buying. Great ideas flounder all the time because people don't buy them. See: every flying/amphibious car ever built. Autonomous cars will be prohibitively expensive, there's no question about that. And the only reason they're utilized in extremely small numbers now is because the long, regulatory arm of the law hasn't had their way with them yet. That will skyrocket the cost to consumers or bankrupt the idea.

Electric cars won't be practical or affordable until you can swap batteries at a station about as fast as you can fuel a car, or there's a new generation of fast charging capacitors that make batteries obsolete.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DoomsdayJesus

Also the same man who wanted everyone's house to be hooked up to a short range DC current and villainized Nikola Tesla through a series of ridiculous publicity stunts to push his drastically more inefficient distribution system.

Regardless of what great men think, that's different from what the mass consumer thinks and will consider buying. Great ideas flounder all the time because people don't buy them. See: every flying/amphibious car ever built. Autonomous cars will be prohibitively expensive, there's no question about that. And the only reason they're utilized in extremely small numbers now is because the long, regulatory arm of the law hasn't had their way with them yet. That will skyrocket the cost to consumers or bankrupt the idea.

Electric cars won't be practical or affordable until you can swap batteries at a station about as fast as you can fuel a car, or there's a new generation of fast charging capacitors that make batteries obsolete.

Edison: One of many poor business decisions that are in the minority compared to the great ones. Yeah he was a ****, anybody who is remembered long past their death was a **** in some capacity. Still relevant to this discussion.

Good point on the amphibious cars, the flying cars is a physics thing, it takes a lot of energy to get up into the air and stay there in a manner that is comfortable for humans.

Absolutely agreed on the electric cars, it will never replace petroleum until you can refuel as quickly AND transport the fuel as easily. It's a lot easier to carry a gallon of gas to my car stalled on the freeway or stuck in the jungle than an equivalent amount of electricity. The electric cars comment had more to do with how at the time electric cars outnumbered gas cars, combustion engines were seen as a reckless technology for personal use. Sound familiar?

:happy0180: