How to do E85 correctly?

[EAGLE5]

Robispec had issues with his mostly stock fuel system. He blamed the e85 if I remember correctly. After cleaning and replacing parts, he stuck with E85.

Other than the occasional fire, I'm not hearing about many issues with E85.

The twins are well-suited to E85 because of their high compression. The fuel's octane allows more timing, getting more powah. I'm not sure it's worth the effort, though, without going FI. With FI, there's a lot more power to gain. I've never seen an e85 versus 91 or 93 drag race comparison.

And mad-sb has it right on finding a good tuner. I've seen a long line of people who felt burnt by mail-order tunes. It seems more people are happy with the mail order tunes than not, but the odds don't look that great.

In the end, I would find a local tuner with massive experience and a good reputation. I hear there are also remote dyno tunes possible, but that doesn't sound good to me. A remote tuner won't hear or see the car's reactions as well. They might miss some subtle knocking. Maybe I'm wrong on that, though.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Adeets

Where are you finding E0?

The two gas stations nearest my house offer it. As a matter of fact, the one that's actually walking distance from my house offers ethanol-free 87, 89, and 93 octane, whereas the other one only offers 87.

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

I'm not sure it's worth the effort, though, without going FI. With FI, there's a lot more power to gain.

Well yeah, but that goes for any power adding mod after that point.

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

In the end, I would find a local tuner with massive experience and a good reputation. I hear there are also remote dyno tunes possible, but that doesn't sound good to me. A remote tuner won't hear or see the car's reactions as well. They might miss some subtle knocking. Maybe I'm wrong on that, though.

I don't have a truck to pull my car, so bringing the car to and from a tuner from MS would be quite the hassle. If I was boosting it I'd do it, but the idea of a NA E85 setup is very appealing to me. An E85 tune costs exactly the same as non-E85 tune, and I'm not doing I/H/E without a tune, so choosing E85 is a no-brainer.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by mattles

e85 has been known to corrode some components in our OEM fuel system (plastics and adhesives, fuel pump parts, etc)

Known to? One person had a failure, one time. Noone knows if it was caused by e85 or some other external source.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I don't have a truck to pull my car, so bringing the car to and from a tuner from MS would be quite the hassle. If I was boosting it I'd do it, but the idea of a NA E85 setup is very appealing to me. An E85 tune costs exactly the same as non-E85 tune, and I'm not doing I/H/E without a tune, so choosing E85 is a no-brainer.

I honestly don't think a tune is worth the effort unless you're going FI. After you install a full intake then exhaust system from the block back followed by a tune, you're halfway or more to an Innovate kit, but nowhere close on overall power. I think it's go big or go home.

Now if you're going to add in valves, springs, cams, porting, stroking, and other work to get higher rpm performance, that's another story, but I haven't seen or heard of any seriously built NA cars. I wonder what compression ratio this car can handle on E85.

[Anthony]

If I can have 210+ hp to the wheels, I will be quite content. Several people are making 200hp on pump gas, so I think 210+ on E85 is a very reasonable goal. Once I'm all done with my car, I might boost it at that point.

[mad_sb]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Thanks so much! Very good response. That link you posted doesn't have the station I have in mind. Of all the websites I've looked at, which is about 10, my station shows up on about 4 of them. That's why I'm not so sure about it. I'm hoping it's just new and not all of the sites' databases have it yet.

And this is a project car, so being doomed to using just one gas station for a really long time is no problem at all. I'll continue to rock the E0 in my daily driver.

Might be worth ordering a test kit just to be sure that 93 is not really E10

Anyway, cal them for sure, i found that one of the stations listed in my area did not carry E85, but i found another that did that was not listed, so i submitted it. If you find one station that has it, ask if the owner has other stations and if so, if any of those carry E85 as well.

[mad_sb]

Next to FI, E85 + Tune is going to net you the most area under the curve. If were starting over at the begining, i would do header, e85, tune and be done with power mods until i was ready for FI.

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Next to FI, E85 + Tune is going to net you the most area under the curve. If were starting over at the begining, i would do header, e85, tune and be done with power mods until i was ready for FI.

AGREED! but it will drive you nuts you will do that then your going to want more and more power hahaha i went from e85+tune -> FI -> now i want to build lol... call up FA20club.com

[Nightbringer]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Well, between your, Sportsguy83, and mad_sb's comments I'm feeling pretty comfortable with the idea. I had already figured it was a pretty safe deal, I'm just trying to be really meticulous about it - prevent any long term problems by upgrading anything that needs it from the beginning.

Definitely approve of the thorough approach. I am the same way when I commence a build---I want every single facet of the setup looked over and make sure nothing is missed. I was leery on the E85 front for many many years now, but after seeing literally hundreds of locals use it religiously for tens of thousands of miles, my concerns were assuaged significantly.

Mad_SB's post is spot on. Expect fuel consumption to be higher. 20-30% is a fair estimate, and usually the cost-savings per-gallon compared to 93 are insufficient to make up for the extra gas required to meet E85's stoich ratio. So you need to decide if the power's worth it for you (unlike what another poster stated, there WILL be notable gains over 93 tune, even without FI). Beyond peak power numbers, the entire powerband will be significantly smoother due to the aggressive ignition advance you can run on E85's ~108 octane.

I'm presently on Visconti's 93+E85 tune, but I second the vote for FA20Club. Tony's a great guy, with customer service that's second to none in my and others' experience. I'd recommend planning to run FA20Club's flexfuel setup in the future. E85 is notorious for inconsistency in the mix (you rarely get FULL 85%). Flexfuel Kit not only allows it to be perfectly adapted every time, but if you travel and can't find E85 (my E85 locator apps on my android phone have been wrong more then once), it's a nice backup to be able to add 93 to the mix without the laptop in the car.

Final point is, it's a good stepping stone in my eyes if you don't have $3000+ to drop on a forced induction kit right now. The stock map is absolutely atrocious (some might even say unsafe). Going this road with a proper flex kit from an attentive vendor is not a sunk cost if you decide to go forced induction down the road. You don't lose that investment, it only further benefit your new turbo/super setup.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by mad_sb

Might be worth ordering a test kit just to be sure that 93 is not really E10

Do you have a specific kit you would recommend? I'm looking at them on Amazon and there are a bunch.

Originally Posted by Nightbringer

Flexfuel Kit not only allows it to be perfectly adapted every time, but if you travel and can't find E85 (my E85 locator apps on my android phone have been wrong more then once), it's a nice backup to be able to add 93 to the mix without the laptop in the car.

Yeah, that is a good point. I knew about that, but I wasn't thinking about that yesterday when I posted this. I was thinking I might just get a flex fuel kit in the future if going to the same gas station over and over was too inconvenient, but the whole point of a tune is so that car runs at its best. So maybe I will think more seriously about getting a flex fuel kit upfront.

[dsrttigr]

This is the way to do it correctly, have FA20Club dyno tune it with ECUtek. Car is much better now, should come stock like this.

[ame="http://youtu.be/TDUm79psQLs"]http://youtu.be/TDUm79psQLs[/ame]

[enouf]

While the Visconti saga raged on the forums, I was doing research on an alternative to pipe cutting and incorrectly sized EFI hose. Now correct me if I'm wrong or if it's too much of a leap to conclusion, but judging from the way the OEM hose uses FPM/FKM as the inner lining as opposed to the traditional NBR leads me to believe the rest of the fuel system should be more than capable of handling E85.

[Nightbringer]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I was thinking I might just get a flex fuel kit in the future if going to the same gas station over and over was too inconvenient, but the whole point of a tune is so that car runs at its best. So maybe I will think more seriously about getting a flex fuel kit upfront.

I'm running straight E85 from a specific gas station that I've tested (twice) at >80% and you can get away with that WELL in the meantime, I've just started travelling which makes it inconvenient consistency wise even when I CAN find an ethanol station that's not pawning off E70 as E85. I know friends who always fill at the same station, but still saw throttle responsiveness improve after going true flex fuel (even a 5% scaling difference matters). I wasn't getting a "pure" blend until 2-3 full fillups after running the tank dry each time, and sporadically have to take the car back in for warranty work (IE: they don't care for E85), so that's why I push the kit so strongly.

As for kit suggestions: get theFA20Club.com kit, you WILL NOT be disappointed. It's been around the longest (with no incidents), has high quality hardware (including a "better"/longer sensor) and is backed by someone trustworthy that's quick to respond to any requests/issues/concerns you may have.

Sorry to beat a deadhorse, I just have yet to hear a single complaint about FA20Club as a vendor, and that's about as likely in my experience as bumping into a unicorn during rushour traffic. :P

[Anthony]

Well since it's a project car, I doubt I'll ever drive it very far from home. The (potential) E85 station near my house is actually about 20 miles away, so 40 miles of gas per tank will always be dedicated to simply getting gas. Unless I use my DD to go fill up some gas cans.

As far as which flex fuel kit, I appreciate the input for FA20Club, but I like to live dangerously, so it'll be Visconti for me.