Vorschlag/AST/Moton Hands On BRZ

[bestwheelbase]

Originally Posted by Silverpike

Delude themselves huh? Do you know who Vorschlag is? Probably not.

*snip*

What pisses me off about this forum is the number of "drifting is rad yo!" people here. Anyone who thinks keeping Prius tires on the car is a good idea is straight up retarded. I am astounded that Subaru is pulling this "pseudo luxury" attitude and putting such crappy tires on the car.

*snip*

The first thing I'm going to do is pull these absurd piles of crap and put some high quality street tires on.

Clearly the OEM tire choice has struck a chord with you. But please let's do without the name calling. It merely detracts from the point you are making and squashes open dialogue.

It comes down to this... these are cars that some people will want to modify. Others will want to keep them stock. Is one approach better or worse?

No.

We will all be supportive of folks who ditch their tires the minute they get home. I, for one, encourage you to discard your worthless horrible no good very bad Prius tires to a loving enthusiast who wishes to use them. We can make a list. (I'm at the top! Free tires are fun tires!)

Let's try to be open minded and realize that however each of us chooses to enjoy his/her FRS/BRZ/86 -- it beats the alternative. : )

[Deslock]

For anyone interested, the original post is at http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showp...00&postcount=1

It's a great write-up, with a couple exceptions:

the factory tires coming on US models SUCK. These pathetic, skinny things are the same tires that come on a Toyota Prius... not kidding. As in "the opposite of performance tires". So it probably spins the rear tires easily and slides around like mad, but its likely making 0.7g lateral on these all weather, super-low-rolling-resistance microtires. Anyone that drives one of these on the factory rubber needs to know that it will make NO GRIP in bone stock form

While they're not the grippiest, statements like "0.7g lateral" and "NO GRIP" and "all weather" range from being exaggerations to outright false.

1. They're Sumer tires.
2. According to this post at NASIOC, these do not come on any US Prius (they're available on the JDM performance package) and they're used by Audi and BMW.
3. They get respectable reviews.

As long as steering feel/feedback is good, using a low rolling resistance, moderately sticky tire makes sense for OEM and for a daily driver. Many who are serious about competing get dedicated tires anyway.

there's a full sized spare wheel and tire

According to motortrend, the BRZ comes with a T135/80D16, which (if I did the math correctly) has a diameter of 24.5" and a width of 5.3" (vs 24.6" and 8.5" for a 215/45R17).

That's not full size (but to be fair, it's not a donut either).

[pithy_logorrhea]

They are glorified all-seasons, not proper summer tires. Treadwear of 240? pff

[oneday]

Originally Posted by pithy_logorrhea

They are glorified all-seasons, not proper summer tires. Treadwear of 240? pff

Treadwear means nothing. The Continental Extreme Contact DW is a UTQG of 340 and out performs many higher performance summer tires. The fact remains that the Primacy HP is not a "performance" tire, but rather chosen because they offer decent feedback and allow some slipping for lower speed limits--they were certainly not selected because they are a common tire or because they are inexpensive (TR has the 225/45-17 at $224/tire, vs $129 for the same size ECDW).

[Draco-REX]

The point of the Primacy HP tires is twofold.

1. It gives the car a lower limit so in stock trim it can be flung around corners sideways. Yes, this is not the fastest way around a track. But it is one of the more FUN ways to do so. Check out this vid where Chris Harris takes an AMG C63 for a spin on 4 space-saver spares.

2. The tires have a very low rolling resistance. This gives the car a better fuel economy in the EPA tests. Manufacturers need to meet minimum average mileage ratings So anything they can do to get their average up will be done. Be prepared to see more and more cars coming with low rolling resistance tires in the future.

You don't have to be Nationally competitive in AutoX to want to tune the car to your class. Regional and Divisional levels can still be plenty reason to want to shed weight and improve the handling. So it's good to know that they're keeping an eye towards AutoX and other venues where this car should excel when they come up with new products. It's better, in my opinion, than just making mods for the sake of making new stuff to sell.

Back OT: Good review. Considering some of the comments I've seen in reviews about the interior, I think most of the reviewers don't know that the seats are height adjustable and the steering wheel is telescopic. It's good to see that they made sure this small car will fit a wide range of driver sizes. However I think the comment about a 6'7" driver might be overboard unless they recline the seat which isn't my preferred driving position.

I'm VERY interested in an exhaust that has weight savings in mind. One with a centrally mounted muffler would be great. I'm looking forward to it.

[pithy_logorrhea]

Originally Posted by oneday

Treadwear means nothing. The Continental Extreme Contact DW is a UTQG of 340 and out performs many higher performance summer tires.

Can you cite source(s) for this?

Draco-REX, I see you are in Ohio. What autox region are you with?

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by pithy_logorrhea

Can you cite source(s) for this?

In general treadwear doesn't mean a lot since there is no standard. I had a set on my spec.B and they're very good tires for the price. No RE-01Rs or Z1*s, but they're nice tires.

Draco-REX, I see you are in Ohio. What autox region are you with?

OVR. I compete in RallyX, but I AutoX now and then for fun. The BRZ will be a good opportunity to work on my lines. The STI is a great platform but the AWD and power can cover for a lot of mistakes.

(for the record, the BRZ will replace the spec.B as my daily, not the STI)

[Rabble]

Normal people (like me) who just want the car for a daily driver will probably change out the tires after 40k miles or whatever with some cheap all seasons.

If you want high performance shit go buy it yourself, I'd rather have msrp be that much lower.

[brufleth]

Originally Posted by Rabble

Normal people (like me) who just want the car for a daily driver will probably change out the tires after 40k miles or whatever with some cheap all seasons.

If you want high performance shit go buy it yourself, I'd rather have msrp be that much lower.

This. I'll probably want snow tires too pretty much as soon as it gets cold up here. If anything I'm a little surprised they didn't go with a cheaper tire. My guess is that they wanted lots of tire squealing videos and the best MPG ratings and felt these were the best readily available option.

[Laika]

Originally Posted by brufleth

This. I'll probably want snow tires too pretty much as soon as it gets cold up here. If anything I'm a little surprised they didn't go with a cheaper tire. My guess is that they wanted lots of tire squealing videos and the best MPG ratings and felt these were the best readily available option.

I'm gonna be blasting around in primacy's all summer/fall. Then I'm gonna throw on blizzak's or equivalent. I'll probably save up for a proper set of summer tires, maybe star specs, during the winter so I can slap them on late february/march. Phew...3 sets of tires in under a year

[oneday]

Originally Posted by pithy_logorrhea

Can you cite source(s) for this?

Originally Posted by pithy_logorrhea

Can you cite source(s) for this?

I probably should have said, "compares favorably to higher performance/lower UTQG tires."

There is Tire Rack's Clash of the Titans: Testing Two New Max Performance Summer Heavy Hitters, which compares four Max Performance Summer Tires:
Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position(UTQG 280)
Continental ExtremeContact DW (UTQG 340)
Michelin Pilot Super Sport (UTQG 300)
Pirelli P Zero (UTQG 220)

Grassroots Motorsports also did a wet and dry test (only the wet portion is online at this time...Splish Spashincluding the Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec, Toyo Proxes R1R, Continental ExtremeContact DW, and the Continental ExtremeContact Wet (actual race tire).

My personal experience is the Conti ECDW is slower, but damn respectable, compared to Dunlop Start Specs or Hankook RS3 in the dry, but much faster in the wet--I've done back to back to back on a wet race track with the same car, changing tires between sessions.

[Draco-REX]

Originally Posted by oneday

I probably should have said, "compares favorably to higher performance/lower UTQG tires."

There is Tire Rack's Clash of the Titans: Testing Two New Max Performance Summer Heavy Hitters, which compares four Max Performance Summer Tires:
Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position(UTQG 280)
Continental ExtremeContact DW (UTQG 340)
Michelin Pilot Super Sport (UTQG 300)
Pirelli P Zero (UTQG 220)

Grassroots Motorsports also did a wet and dry test (only the wet portion is online at this time...Splish Spashincluding the Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec, Toyo Proxes R1R, Continental ExtremeContact DW, and the Continental ExtremeContact Wet (actual race tire).

My personal experience is the Conti ECDW is slower, but damn respectable, compared to Dunlop Start Specs or Hankook RS3 in the dry, but much faster in the wet--I've done back to back to back on a wet race track with the same car, changing tires between sessions.

Hmm, I didn't realize the Conti ECDW is 2lbs lighter than the R-S3. I'm starting to rethink my tire choice since the R-S3 sucks so much in the wet. Crud.

[Dragonitti]

Best looking interior for a 25 grand car I've ever seen.

I'd skip the Limited package and get the "base" model for $2K or so less.

Makes me think of how much the FR-S will cost since it doesn't come with what the Limited has..

[Grimlock]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Makes me think of how much the FR-S will cost since it doesn't come with what the Limited has..

Don't forget that they don't actually know the pricing any better than anyone else right now. The prices listed in the article are just estimates like every other price we've seen so far.