Forget the NA vs Turbo debate!!!!

[bigbcraig]

Sorry for the double post... but

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Carburetors suck donkey balls. I don't miss 'em. Yeah they're simple, but they only run right under a very limited range of circumstances.

EFI and distributorless ignition FTW

Yes and no. Carburetor are easy to work on and tune if you are familiar with 'em, and while a carburetor will rarely run as well as EFI (especially across the entire rev range), it will almost always run. And there are many situations in which I'd prefer a carbureted engine running poorly to an EFI sitting cold because the program isn't quite right.

For something like ATVs that I love to run around on, they definitely have their place.

[Midship Runabout]

Originally Posted by bigbcraig

For something like ATVs that I love to run around on, they definitely have their place.

Not for long. Most of the major brands have already switched to fuel injection. (450cc)

[BoostJunkie]

Originally Posted by Dixie Normous

Not for long. Most of the major brands have already switched to fuel injection. (450cc)

^^^^ this is true^^^^

[Matador]

High power, high compression engine, + shitty gas = nice excuse to run a carb. True story.

[BoostJunkie]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

High power, high compression engine, + shitty gas = nice excuse to run a carb. True story.

true true

[Snaps]

I'm suprised most car enthusiasts have yet to see the article/investigation about this, along with most normal people.

Toyota's have had 'black boxes' of a sort for a few years now, and Toyota, or someone, has looked into these and found the data they record. It shows that 99% of the reported 'accidental acceleration' issues are driver error. ie. drivers pressing the accelerator instead of the brake. The boxes showed a normal pedal position, and then an increase up to (usually) 100% on throttle, with absolutely no increase of the braking pedal before an accident... The only reason you probably don't know about it is because of the American media pulling the wool over people's eyes. They don't want people to know about this as it shows they're wrong. They would rather put the blame on toyota.

The same thing happened with Audi in the 1990's, a few people spoke out about an acceleration problem, and everyone else followed suit, when those people didn't really have a problem in the first place.

This just leaves Toyota stuck... they can't exactly blame the crap drivers, how would that make Toyota look? So they say they are looking for a fix to a problem that isn't there, and making it look like they are doing something by shaving people's pedals down, etc. when there really isn't anything to fix. That has been Toyota's policy for ages, they figure people would rather know if something is wrong with their vehicle and have them bring it in to get fixed than do what so many other manufacturers do and don't tell anyone about it until they bring their car in with the problem...

[BoostJunkie]

Originally Posted by Snaps

I'm suprised most car enthusiasts have yet to see the article/investigation about this, along with most normal people.

Toyota's have had 'black boxes' of a sort for a few years now, and Toyota, or someone, has looked into these and found the data they record. It shows that 99% of the reported 'accidental acceleration' issues are driver error. ie. drivers pressing the accelerator instead of the brake. The boxes showed a normal pedal position, and then an increase up to (usually) 100% on throttle, with absolutely no increase of the braking pedal before an accident... The only reason you probably don't know about it is because of the American media pulling the wool over people's eyes. They don't want people to know about this as it shows they're wrong. They would rather put the blame on toyota.

The same thing happened with Audi in the 1990's, a few people spoke out about an acceleration problem, and everyone else followed suit, when those people didn't really have a problem in the first place.

This just leaves Toyota stuck... they can't exactly blame the crap drivers, how would that make Toyota look? So they say they are looking for a fix to a problem that isn't there, and making it look like they are doing something by shaving people's pedals down, etc. when there really isn't anything to fix. That has been Toyota's policy for ages, they figure people would rather know if something is wrong with their vehicle and have them bring it in to get fixed than do what so many other manufacturers do and don't tell anyone about it until they bring their car in with the problem...

Yeah, what's up, nice mkiv, bpu?apu?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Snaps

I'm suprised most car enthusiasts have yet to see the article/investigation about this, along with most normal people.

Toyota's have had 'black boxes' of a sort for a few years now, and Toyota, or someone, has looked into these and found the data they record. It shows that 99% of the reported 'accidental acceleration' issues are driver error. ie. drivers pressing the accelerator instead of the brake. The boxes showed a normal pedal position, and then an increase up to (usually) 100% on throttle, with absolutely no increase of the braking pedal before an accident... The only reason you probably don't know about it is because of the American media pulling the wool over people's eyes. They don't want people to know about this as it shows they're wrong. They would rather put the blame on toyota.

The same thing happened with Audi in the 1990's, a few people spoke out about an acceleration problem, and everyone else followed suit, when those people didn't really have a problem in the first place.

This just leaves Toyota stuck... they can't exactly blame the crap drivers, how would that make Toyota look? So they say they are looking for a fix to a problem that isn't there, and making it look like they are doing something by shaving people's pedals down, etc. when there really isn't anything to fix. That has been Toyota's policy for ages, they figure people would rather know if something is wrong with their vehicle and have them bring it in to get fixed than do what so many other manufacturers do and don't tell anyone about it until they bring their car in with the problem...

nice comment... but what's that gotta do w Turbo or NA?

[Midship Runabout]

My original topic for this thread was the DBW incident. But like most of our threads, it was derailed. hard.

[ichitaka05]

Oh~ I forgot... My bad

[Snaps]

It was in reply to the OP

BoostJunkie, thanks, it's almost BPU I suppose. Has EBC, FMIC, and a modified downpipe (removed cat convertor), no exhaust yet, though I want one. :P

I still need to do quite a lot of work on it to get it to the standard I would like, so these things will come before the exhaust. I'll just say it's a little rough around the edges.

Yours is nice too. I've always wanted a red MKIV! And it's a late model too by the looks of it?

[Allch Chcar]

The DBW Fear is funny to say the least. Cable throttles stick too especially after many miles of driving leaves the throttle body chock full of gunk. I've checked the throttle body on both my mom's van and my grandmother's ('96 Ford Windstar and '01 Toyota Sienna respectively) both are cable operated v6 minivans and both were oozing with carbon deposits. The Windstar which was higher mileage actually had almost a half pound of ooze in the intake since it was lower than the throttle body.

The problem with the runaway Prius is even if the throttle did stick wide open no amount of braking stomping will slow them down as they rev to 4-5k and hold that RPM. At low RPM, braking might stop the engine but at peak HP > braking power. The only solution is to toss it in neutral and let the engine blow. They have a CVT but even an Automatic there is no Clutch to stomp down and let the engine blow or to at least slow down enough to get it unstuck. And traditional Automatics will jump into lower gears to increase RPM under full throttle so brakes might not work in that case. I consider clutches safety devices . har har anyway [/joke][seriousness].

@Snaps
It would be ironic if having an auto with the MUCH larger brake pedal that people still committed acts of unintended acceleration. I believe you but please share the link.

[Snaps]

Hold on a second, I'll just try and dig it up.

Edit: Got it: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/13/b...pplication-in/

I've even bolded the important parts for you. Spread the word so we can get Toyota's reputation back!

After receiving more than 3,000 reports of sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles, the U.S. Department of Transportation has concluded that driver error was actually at fault. According to The Wall Street Journal, investigators analyzing different data recorders from Toyota vehicles found that at the time of these sudden acceleration crashes, the throttles were wide open rather and the brakes were not depressed. Thus, they have reason to believe that drivers were mistakenly stomping on the accelerator rather than slamming the brakes in an attempt to avoid these crashes.

Of the 75 fatal crashes blamed on sudden acceleration, only one incident has actually been verified as being caused by vehicle fault – the Lexus ES350 accident that killed a California highway patrolman and three other passengers last August. Even so, this case was chalked up as an incident where the floor mat trapped the gas pedal, which Toyota quickly issued a recall for.

The WSJ also reports that U.S. Transportation Department officials have stated publicly that they have yet to find any electronic glitches in Toyota vehicles that could lead to these crashes. The only defects proven to be true are those that have been outlined by Toyota itself – floor mats and sticky accelerator pedals that are slow to return to idle.

So while Toyota may not have been at fault in these sudden acceleration cases, the automaker's image has indeed been seriously tarnished over the past few months. Over eight million Toyota vehicles have been recalled worldwide – a large blemish in automotive history, and it appears that much of the hand-wringing may have been for naught.

[MtnDrvr86]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

The DBW Fear is funny to say the least. Cable throttles stick too especially after many miles of driving leaves the throttle body chock full of gunk. I've checked the throttle body on both my mom's van and my grandmother's ('96 Ford Windstar and '01 Toyota Sienna respectively) both are cable operated v6 minivans and both were oozing with carbon deposits. The Windstar which was higher mileage actually had almost a half pound of ooze in the intake since it was lower than the throttle body.

The problem with the runaway Prius is even if the throttle did stick wide open no amount of braking stomping will slow them down as they rev to 4-5k and hold that RPM. At low RPM, braking might stop the engine but at peak HP > braking power. The only solution is to toss it in neutral and let the engine blow. They have a CVT but even an Automatic there is no Clutch to stomp down and let the engine blow or to at least slow down enough to get it unstuck. And traditional Automatics will jump into lower gears to increase RPM under full throttle so brakes might not work in that case. I consider clutches safety devices . har har anyway [/joke][seriousness].

@Snaps
It would be ironic if having an auto with the MUCH larger brake pedal that people still committed acts of unintended acceleration. I believe you but please share the link.

Brakes are made to stop even with run away vehicles...

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/saf...6/article.html
they also have videos as well

the jist of it is, even with wide open throttle, the brakes will slow down and stop the vehicle

"In other words, even if the driver of a runaway car (well, a Camry, anyway) doesn't think to put the transmission into neutral before hitting the brakes, it is still possible to stop the car within a reasonable distance if sufficient pedal force is applied."

other sites have tested this as well, and Im pretty sure the DMV has as well