AS1 Definition?

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

The fact remains that Toyota will have their own designation for it.

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With respect to it not being a Toyota chassis, in my eyes that's open to interpretation, as both parties seem to be congruent with the fact that while originally Subaru based, it is in effect, a new chassis that they came together to build. So it's bullshit to say that it's not a Toyota chassis. One of these days perhaps we will be privy to exactly the "who did what", not that it matters, really, because at the end of the day, it's here and it seems to be great. That being said, a lot of folks seemingly in some sort of Subaru fan club like to rub that "Subaru did this" or " Toyota couldn't have done it on their own" (total bull btw). Either way, one thing is clear, even if Toyota didn't do more than lift a finger to pull out their wallet, this car would not exist (or it it did, probably not in the same capacity) without them and that is a hard fact. So seriously, cut the crap, as the elitist attitude that has already begun to sprung up will do nothing good for the community.

Come on Metador. You have to have good humor about the situation and how Toyota had to ask for help to build an affordable sports car.

[bambbrose]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

Come on Metador. You have to have good humor about the situation and how Toyota had to ask for help to build an affordable sports car.

They didn't have to. They chose to do so for economic reasons.

[JDLM]

Originally Posted by bambbrose

They didn't have to. They chose to do so for economic reasons.

I'll play devils advocate here:

Toyoda didn't think his co. could do it ...they have turned too bland and vanilla

[Matador]

Originally Posted by bambbrose

They didn't have to. They chose to do so for economic reasons.

woosh.

Originally Posted by JDLM

I'll play devils advocate here:

Toyoda didn't think his co. could do it ...they have turned too bland and vanilla

At the risk of carrying this thread way off topic, Who did they turn to for help with the LFA?

[JDLM]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

woosh.

At the risk of carrying this thread way off topic, Who did they turn to for help with the LFA?

I don't see the LFA as an "affordable" sports car (feel free to make a whole new thread out of the "FR-S/GT86" forum but they sure are looking for help w/ battery tech and diesel technology (why can't they just do it on their own...)

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

The fact remains that Toyota will have their own designation for it.

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With respect to it not being a Toyota chassis, in my eyes that's open to interpretation, as both parties seem to be congruent with the fact that while originally Subaru based, it is in effect, a new chassis that they came together to build. So it's bullshit to say that it's not a Toyota chassis. One of these days perhaps we will be privy to exactly the "who did what", not that it matters, really, because at the end of the day, it's here and it seems to be great. That being said, a lot of folks seemingly in some sort of Subaru fan club like to rub that "Subaru did this" or " Toyota couldn't have done it on their own" (total bull btw). Either way, one thing is clear, even if Toyota didn't do more than lift a finger to pull out their wallet, this car would not exist (or it it did, probably not in the same capacity) without them and that is a hard fact. So seriously, cut the crap, as the elitist attitude that has already begun to sprung up will do nothing good for the community.

Remember when it was first stated how much Subaru did and how little Toyota did? Most of these comments are making fun of the Toyota fanboys who slammed Subaru then. Until now the only Subaru I would have bought was the old 2.5RS so I doubt I'm a Subaru fanboy.

Agreed that without Toyota asking for their help it would have never happened though.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by bambbrose

They didn't have to. They chose to do so for economic reasons.

^ = Toyta having to ask for help. Doesn't matter the reason why. Toyota had the project idea but couldn't do it themselves.

When Subaru dropped out of the project it was dead until Subaru changed their mind and decided to come back and make things work.

[Jeff Lange]

With how much Toyota owns of Subaru, I have a feeling that even if Subaru wanted out, Toyota could have "convinced" them not to.

Jeff

[JDLM]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lange

With how much Toyota owns of Subaru, I have a feeling that even if Subaru wanted out, Toyota could have "convinced" them not to.

Jeff

16.5% isn't enough to say DO IT

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by JDLM

16.5% isn't enough to say DO IT

Correct, and the project DID die for what, a year or more, until Subaru came back to the table.

I fully suspect that Subaru demanded something extra when they came back to the table..

[Jeff Lange]

Originally Posted by JDLM

16.5% isn't enough to say DO IT

Though, it is 16.5% of FHI, which would probably equate to a higher percentage of Subaru itself, but regardless, it's still more than anyone else owns, and it's probably enough to at least put some noteworthy pressure on them to do something if they really want to.

Regardless, this car isn't a Subaru chassis, or a Toyota chassis, it's something else. I know Subaru developed a lot of the chassis and that is very apparent from seeing the car. That being said, I think if you ask any Toyota guy they will look at the car and say this doesn't feel like a Toyota, likewise with Subaru guys. Various brands tend to have a consistent feel to the car. You get into it and expect things to be a certain way, the way switches look, the placement of things, etc. This car has a very Subaru feel to it for me, but I'm sure at the same time Subaru guys look at the BRZ and think it has a Toyota feel to it. Things like the mirror switches and the reservoir caps scream Subaru, but then you've got "Toyota" transmission and differentials with a D4-S system.

It's a unique car, which is pretty cool.

Jeff

[madfast]

Originally Posted by tranzformer

^ = Toyta having to ask for help. Doesn't matter the reason why. Toyota had the project idea but couldn't do it themselves.

When Subaru dropped out of the project it was dead until Subaru changed their mind and decided to come back and make things work.

not couldnt do it themselves, but didnt want to do it themselves. do people really believe that they can make the LF-A, yet cant make the FT? really?

and didnt the story go that subaru dropped out because they wanted AWD and toyota wanted RWD? and only after a prototype was made, that they went back?

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by madfast

not couldnt do it themselves, but didnt want to do it themselves. do people really believe that they can make the LF-A, yet cant make the FT? really?

Let's see, outsourcing GT86 to Subaru, outsourcing help for battery tech, outsourcing help for diesel tech.... Sure they can build a LFA on their own but can they build and design a car that we want and can afford on their own. So far the last +10 years has said no.

[Jeff Lange]

I don't think it is a question of them not being able to develop these things, but it being economical and beneficial to other companies for them to collaborate with tech companies like Tesla who have already dedicated a large amount of research into something. Why do it again when you can partner with them and reap the benefits?

It's not like Toyota didn't develop the first gas/electric hybrid and continue to develop them for almost 15 years already. They're looking to stay ahead, and working with other companies to do that is a smart move.

Jeff