oversteer and understeer

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Have you tried "butt kicker" in iRacing?
Not a full substitute, of course, but communicates some stuff.

Butt Kicker? No! Please elaborate Timur

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by TommyW

I found in the sim you’re using only sight for dealing with understeer, oversteer and drifting so it’s kind of deficit training for when you’re on the track and when you have butt feedback it’s easier.

Sim really helped me with my hand motion. When I started tracking I would "feed" the wheel all the time. It also really helps with my braking since I can see the brake force bar. Driving AC in the F2004 with no TC or ABS really helps smooth out the footwork.

[Dzmitry]

I like this discussion. Was never crazy about wanting to get a proper sim steering wheel kit for gaming. But after reading the comments here, I'll be looking into getting a good setup!

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by TommyW

I found in the sim you’re using only sight for dealing with understeer, oversteer and drifting so it’s kind of deficit training for when you’re on the track and when you have butt feedback it’s easier.

That’s very true. Like I said, it gets you the basics for throttle control, line choice, braking zones, steering motion/quickness, etc. To go past that is difficult besides driving a real car.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

I like this discussion. Was never crazy about wanting to get a proper sim steering wheel kit for gaming. But after reading the comments here, I'll be looking into getting a good setup!

I've been mulling it over for years! These guys are going to pull me over the edge. Dammit.

[Ktse]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I've been mulling it over for years! These guys are going to pull me over the edge. Dammit.

I'd say start out with the basics to find out if it's really for you. A decent mid range computer to run a modern sim would can cost anywhere from $500-$1000, a Logitech force feedback wheel $300 new or lower on the used market. That said, the sky is the limit in terms of gear. You can get direct drive wheels that have enough torque to damage your wrists in accidents, VR headsets for next level of immersion, and really fancy seats that will move and vibrate to simulate g forces. At that point I usually would draw the line and just take my car to the track.

I have had a pretty basic setup for close to close to a decade and haven't gone off the deep end since I got other hobbies but it's works great for just playing around and infinite track time is nice too.

It's not going to replace real driving for thrills, but as a training tool and for entertainment, it certainly scratches the itch.

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

I like this discussion. Was never crazy about wanting to get a proper sim steering wheel kit for gaming. But after reading the comments here, I'll be looking into getting a good setup!

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I've been mulling it over for years! These guys are going to pull me over the edge. Dammit.

Just be careful. It's just as slippery a slope as modding cars lol.

[TommyW]

One of the best exercises on the sim is the "eyes up" drills. There are skidpads in both AC and iracing so those are fun also. Putting different cars on and seeing which ones can push the highest G's without losing traction. With many F1 drivers living on their sims that should speak volumes. I found that even a simple setup is acceptable.

[Kona61]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I've been mulling it over for years! These guys are going to pull me over the edge. Dammit.

Yea as the prior comment or stated, it can be a cheap endeavor. My wheel is an ancient G27 I’ve had for years. Computer is a pretty basic i7, Nvidia 1070 from a few years back. Whole setup could be easily had for less than $1000 not including a monitor.

[timurrrr]

Just make sure to not cheap out on pedals and get a force-sensitive brake pedal instead of position-sensitive.

To set clear expectations, don't expect to find a 3-pedal box that feels like a real car.
I have the Fanatec V3 inverted, and even after a lot of tweaking it doesn't feel like a real car with a clutch.

[TommyW]

From Paradigm Shift Coaching:
BENEFITS OF SIM TRAINING
Having access to daily visual cue training is just one of the benefits of sim racing however. Even if a driver had nearly unlimited access to a real world track, I would still recommend sim training because it allows you to do things that are impractical or simply impossible in real life. For example, what if you want to work on your oversteer control? Most track organizers get pretty upset if you start spinning out on every other corner. In a simulator however, you can easily and quickly set up a car to be incredibly loose and then have unlimited tires to practice with on your own personal skidpad.

One of the least obvious, but probably most important aspects of sim training is the ability to set static conditions to accurately track your progress. Once you reach the skill level where you are searching for fractions of a second, it can be quite difficult in real life to gauge where the time differences are coming from. Am I half a second quicker today because I'm doing something better or is it the tires, track, weather, or any number of other variables? While most modern sims allow you to set varied weather and track states, they also allow you to set static conditions if you wish and they provide you with an absolutely identical car every time. My Spec Racer Ford was a "spec" car where driver skill and setup are emphasized, but eliminating all variations between cars in real life is simply impossible. Sim racing provides the only true spec racing where any improvement in your times can be traced directly to some aspect of your driving.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by trippinbillies40

Just be careful. It's just as slippery a slope as modding cars lol.

Seems ok for entry-level.

[TommyW]

SIMULATING MOVEMENT
Since obviously the real world follows the laws of physics as well, if the proper techniques are learned in a simulator, these skills will carry over. It's not surprising that champion sim drivers that make the move to real racing often reach the front of the field very quickly. The reason there is such a high transferability of skills from sim to real world is because the very best drivers are reacting to primarily visual cues as they drive. Replicating visual cues is what simulators do very well. While the g-force cues you lose in sim racing, "the seat of the pants" feeling can be helpful in real life, this is secondary to vision as a driving cue.

​I also see the lack of g-forces in a sim as a form of deficit training however. When we lose one sense, it sharpens our others. Most drivers report that when they hit the track in real life and their g-force cues come back, everything feels just a bit easier. I know from a personal standpoint that once I learned to focus on primarily visual cues in training, any improvements I made in my sim racing car control were immediately apparent in my real life driving as well. The reason this works is because what we see and feel on a race track is synergistic. The visual cues and g-force cues are providing the exact same information. The information of movement. While you can both see and feel the effects of changing tire forces on the car, only your eyes can tell you which direction those forces are moving you. For a racing driver, tracking that movement on track is what's key.

-Paradigm Shift Coaching

[trippinbillies40]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Seems ok for entry-level.

To be fair, my first "sim rig" was a not-glue-together pvc stand that I could take apart and shove in my closet, with a g27 on it for Gran Turismo.

Pretty much the same thing.