Entry Level?

[nikitopo]

Is it an entry level Porsche of today an entry level sports car? No way! If you get a Cayman, it might be their cheapest model offering. This doesn't mean that it is an entry level sports car. It is a very capable sports car. It just focus more on handling and vehicle dynamics comparing to the biggest 911 siblings, but definitely not an entry level for track days or sports driving and the like ...

Same can be said about the Porsche's of the past like the 924's, 944's and 968's. The majority were again 4-cylinder NA engine cars. Were they entry level cars? Even by today's standards they are not and they are quite capable:

(Continental's test race track)

If Porsche cannot offer nowadays a cheaper option in their model range the way they did in late 70's, 80's and middle 90's and Subaru can offer it, then it is an issue of Porsche. It is not an issue of Subaru or that the 86/BRZ is a "cheap" or an "entry level" sports car.

[WildCard600]

Were Porsche's ever "cheap" ? I would bet if you look at even the most budget Porsche 40 years ago and adjust for inflation I think you'll come out about at the cost of the lowest trim level Cayman today.

[Tcoat]

These cars are most definitely entry level sports cars. They are a car built for the street that can be used on the track as opposed to a car that is built for the track that can be used on the street. A much better choice for anybody that wants to get into car sports for the first time without forking over piles of cash or risk killing themselves or somebody else.
But, that does not mean that they are ONLY for entry level. A skilled driver can make even stock ones do things that the beginner can only dream of. The term "entry level" may seem like you are expected to go up to something else but really you can advance and never leave the platform. Once you have reached the full abilities of the car ( a much rarer occurrence than people here would have you think) then you have the option of upping the performance or moving on into higher 'levels of cars.
Calling it entry level is in no way an insult or slight but a simple and clear description.

[motosteveo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

These cars are most definitely entry level sports cars. They are a car built for the street that can be used on the track as opposed to a car that is built for the track that can be used on the street.[...]

I agree with everything you said Tcoat, but I "thanked" your post specifically for the Seinfeld reference

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by motosteveo

I agree with everything you said Tcoat, but I "thanked" your post specifically for the Seinfeld reference

[pallen]

I don't know is "entry level" is the right term. I'm not offended by it, but I dont find it accurate. They are certainly targeting a lower price point. These aren't luxury sport cars.

To me, "entry level" indicates something people start out on and then work their way up to something more professional as they gain skill or experience. That's not often how it works with cars. You buy what you can afford. I cannot afford a Porsche and will never "move up" to one. I looked at 10+yr old Caymans - not willing to go that old for that much money.

The twins are all about fun/$ that's obtainable for most buyers. They clearly cut corners to keep the price down and focused on keeping the driving experience primary. If you have the money to spend, you will find other great options with nicer interiors, better stereos, more power, built-in adjustable suspension, etc.

[pallen]

Originally Posted by WildCard600

Were Porsche's ever "cheap" ? I would bet if you look at even the most budget Porsche 40 years ago and adjust for inflation I think you'll come out about at the cost of the lowest trim level Cayman today.

The 914 sold for like $3600 in 1970. That would be ~$24,000 in today's dollars. That was probably the only "cheap" Porsche. A friend in high school had one. The twins kind of remind me of that car. Bare bones, slow, and an absolute blast to drive.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by pallen

I don't know is "entry level" is the right term. I'm not offended by it, but I dont find it accurate. They are certainly targeting a lower price point. These aren't luxury sport cars.

To me, "entry level" indicates something people start out on and then work their way up to something more professional as they gain skill or experience. That's not often how it works with cars. You buy what you can afford. I cannot afford a Porsche and will never "move up" to one. I looked at 10+yr old Caymans - not willing to go that old for that much money.

The twins are all about fun/$ that's obtainable for most buyers. They clearly cut corners to keep the price down and focused on keeping the driving experience primary. If you have the money to spend, you will find other great options with nicer interiors, better stereos, more power, built-in adjustable suspension, etc.

Just because it is aimed at a "beginner" doesn't mean that it is restricted to one nor that you are expected to "move up".
It is not a back and white definition by any stretch but completely accurate when applied as a more general rule.

[WildCard600]

Originally Posted by pallen

The 914 sold for like $3600 in 1970. That would be ~$24,000 in today's dollars. That was probably the only "cheap" Porsche. A friend in high school had one. The twins kind of remind me of that car. Bare bones, slow, and an absolute blast to drive.

Interesting.

In 1970 a 426 Hemi 'Cuda was $3,832‬. Plymouth sold less than 1,000 of them because of the price.

A Corvette was $5,192.

So even the comparatively "cheap" Porsche (in today's dollars) was pretty expensive for the time.

[pallen]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Just because it is aimed at a "beginner" doesn't mean that it is restricted to one nor that you are expected to "move up".
It is not a back and white definition by any stretch but completely accurate when applied as a more general rule.

See, I don't think "beginner" works either. I've had a VW Squareback(not really sports car, but a project car), Honda Prelude, MKI MR2, Z32, Mazdaspeed3, and a few grocery getters. I'm pushing 50 and far from a "beginner", but the 86 was exactly what I wanted. It hit the budget and the kind of fun I was looking for. If I had Porsche money, I'd have one, or a Vette, or Lotus, who knows. This was an economic decision, not experience or a matter of being a "beginner". As we've seen in a few threads on here, I'm not alone in this age group with experience with other project sports cars. Then, we've all seen spoiled kids given a Porsche or Vette, AMG or M series and such. They are 100% "beginners", but they have the cash and go straight for the "advanced" cars.

The twins are good cheap fun for beginners, or old farts that have been around the block/track a time or two. I think that is 100% what was intended from the very beginning with this car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by pallen

See, I don't think "beginner" works either. I've had a VW Squareback(not really sports car, but a project car), Honda Prelude, MKI MR2, Z32, Mazdaspeed3, and a few grocery getters. I'm pushing 50 and far from a "beginner", but the 86 was exactly what I wanted. It hit the budget and the kind of fun I was looking for. If I had Porsche money, I'd have one, or a Vette, or Lotus, who knows. This was an economic decision, not experience or a matter of being a "beginner". As we've seen in a few threads on here, I'm not alone in this age group with experience with other project sports cars. Then, we've all seen spoiled kids given a Porsche or Vette, AMG or M series and such. They are 100% "beginners", but they have the cash and go straight for the "advanced" cars.

The twins are good cheap fun for beginners, or old farts that have been around the block/track a time or two. I think that is 100% what was intended from the very beginning with this car.

Agreed but that does not mean the car wasn't targeted at that group.
It most certainly is suitable for any group and my list is similar to yours (only about 10 years older for both me and the cars).
As I said it can be classed as an entry level car but it is not restricted to that.
People are putting far too much thought into the term.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by pallen

The 914 sold for like $3600 in 1970. That would be ~$24,000 in today's dollars. That was probably the only "cheap" Porsche. A friend in high school had one. The twins kind of remind me of that car. Bare bones, slow, and an absolute blast to drive.

Well, the 914 shared many parts with VW including the engine. Some never considered it a "real" Porsche, although it had a Porsche badge. A few people were even calling it a VW-Porsche. The 924 is a better example with a different engine and a base price of $9,395 back in '76. This is around $42,800 in today's price which is much cheaper to a base Cayman that costs $59,900. Same prices hold for Europe for 924 and Cayman. A $42,800 price is certainly not cheap, but it was the budget friendly car that Porsche doesn't have today. In fact the player nowadays in this price range is the BRZ and they know it. At least in Europe. I think in US you don't pay so much for a 86/BRZ, but you have also the advantage of the local Subaru factory that can amortize somehow any import taxes etc.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

This is around $42,800 in today's price which is much cheaper to a base Cayman that costs $59,900. Same prices hold for Europe for 924 and Cayman. A $42,800 price is certainly not "cheap", but it was the budget friendly car that Porsche doesn't have today..

A straight adjusted dollar cost comparison doesn't work though.

The 1976 car could not be sold new today, not by any stretch of the imagination. They were much simpler cars with not near the tech.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

A straight adjusted dollar cost comparison doesn't work though.

The 1976 car could not be sold new today, not by any stretch of the imagination. They were much simpler cars with not near the tech.

Oh well they had other kind of problems to solve at that time. They don't have a modern tech by today's terms, but they had modern tech at that point of time. There are other reasons why Porsche cannot sell in this price range today, but this is another discussion