Who is happy the engine will be Naturally Aspirated?

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

Your right though, Subaru engines have never been hardcore performers in general. Just by slapping on a big turbo on the STIs EJ255/EJ257, didn't make the engine marvelous by design. They were still pretty basic EJ25s. Which could have seen some factory improvements.

Check out the 2.-2.5L engines of the year in 2006 and 2008... not that marvelous.


http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyear/previous04.html

[Kids Heart]

I'm starting to think some of you have never driven a turbo.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Kids Heart

I'm starting to think some of you have never driven a turbo.

Some, like who? And what kind of turbo application are you implying? A turbo setup like a GT35R equipped Evo VIII that has a boost threshold at 5k RPM, a bone-stock BMW 335i that has a boost threshold barely over idle, or perhaps something more mild like a Saab 9-3 with its light-pressure setup?

The point is, turbo setups inherently provide a different set of circumstances to which you must abide. Not everyone wants to have their power delivery at the whim of the turbos compressor map positioning and spool-up time. Just because you can anticipate the boost hit doesn't mean it's something you can put faith in.

There are a lot of great turbocharged powertrains out there for people that like turbos. What's not going to happen and has been iterated time and time again is the FT-86/FR-S will NOT start off being turbocharged. Those clinging on for dear hope that their foolish dreams will be fulfilled are simply wasting their time. Come back during the mid-cycle refresh when sales have plummeted and Subaru finally caves into your demands.

In the meantime, Natural Aspiration is the only salvation here.

[Sabastian]

I was a bit of a boost junkie until I had a chance to drive some cars with truly remarkable NA engines. The Porsche Boxster S, for example, has an engine that delivers power linearly, sounds incredible, and keeps singing all the way to redline. Turbo charged cars can be a lot of fun, but if this car is going to be Miata-esque is its approach, then I think NA is the way to go.

The thing is, I do have reservations about a Subaru-developed powertrain in a sports car. I get that Subaru enjoys an almost cult-like level of devotion from its fans, but frankly, I've never really gotten what all the fuss is about. My observations and experiences with Subaru engines have been rather underwhelming: low specific output, poor fuel economy, tractor-like shift action, mediocre throttle response, etc.

I'm not so concerned about the power output of the FT-86's engine as I am with the fact that it needs to feel like an engine that belongs in a sports car. The same goes for the transmission. If it ends up with some horrible Forrester-esque shift action, then what's the point? Luckily, it sounds like the engineers working on the project have a very clear idea of how they want everything to feel, and that gives me some hope. Fingers crossed.

[Ryephile]

[chulooz]

I think a lot of people underestimate the performance heritage of some of subaru's models and motor sporting history.

In my opinion all of the Toyota brand's models have been performance limited in the US since the MRS. In the most recent years it's been Subaru getting performance engines onto the market. But dont take what im saying as bashing, Toyota has developed some of the most amazing performance cars in the game its just that as of lately we all know they have been slacking (excepts for the exotic LFA, bless its demonic soul), especially in the US.

[fatoni]

forced induction or natural aspiration are just means to an end. sometimes a cheap low boost application can be cheaper than n/a tuning. i want it turboed from the factory simply because the "we want na just turbo it yourself" crowd is ignoring the kind of things that make a motor great for forced indcution and n/a are almost mutually exclusive. just give me whatever produces more smiles per dollar

[Dimman]

If you look at the 84mm X 90mm bore x stroke of the FB20, it says "I need boost to make power!" to me.

Namely the stroke says "I don't like to rev, but I can push out a lot of exhaust early in the rev range to spool a turbo."

For it to be a good NA setup, I'm hoping for a more suitable motor for it...

[Ryephile]

At this point there isn't enough concrete engine data to begin picking it apart as an N/A setup. Let's wait 'til real production engine specifications are nailed down before dismissing the engine as something or another. We can guess the bore and stroke, but we're not positive that it'll be a plain-jane FB20, de-stroked/long-con-rod FB25, or something totally unexpected.

[Exage]

I'll let you know once the specs are released. For simplicity and costs sake I guess so, but we are still missing the crucial details on the engine. Fingers crossed.

[[es vi: eks]]

I prefer Na for my daily.
But I would be a starter for a NA flat 6 in mine
Would be cool if they did the 6 with D4, but chances of the happening is nill.
It would be cool to see a limited edition turbo STI 86.

Originally Posted by chulooz

I think a lot of people underestimate the performance heritage of some of subaru's models and motor sporting history.

Yup I agree.

My old Subaru 1973 1400 GSR coupe loved to rev.
It was twin carb, hi compression, Preformance heads, stage 3 cam, Sports exhaust,
It was so good to drive. Struck to rd like tar. Fast for its age.
Was totally factory and orginal
I need to restore it to its former glory.
I Miss driving it.

They did a rally verson called the 1400 RX coupe. It was lighter, had 4 disks, 5 speed.

[Maxim]

If this thing weighs 2700+ lbs, then I'm going to be let down by less than 220hp.

Technically, that's attainable - The S2000 managed it. However, Honda has a long history of crazy specific outputs and was helped by years of engine development in F1.

Yamaha is crazy good at this stuff...I think my favorite example of their work is the C4 ZR1 Corvette engine. Amazing power and sound.

But given the stats on the engine, I just don't see anything above 200hp happening from the factory. And I don't really want to spend $4000 for the additional 20-30hp.....(not to mention the $5000+ it'd cost to convert to a turbo set-up, and even then you're running a less durable engine)

Yes, the addition of a turbo mutes pretty engine noises, yes it introduces varying levels of turbo-lag....but it also allows much better power and most importantly for me, allows easy, inexpensive tuning for significantly more power.

[MtnDrvr86]

Originally Posted by Maxim

If this thing weighs 2700+ lbs, then I'm going to be let down by less than 220hp.

Technically, that's attainable - The S2000 managed it. However, Honda has a long history of crazy specific outputs and was helped by years of engine development in F1.

Yamaha is crazy good at this stuff...I think my favorite example of their work is the C4 ZR1 Corvette engine. Amazing power and sound.

But given the stats on the engine, I just don't see anything above 200hp happening from the factory. And I don't really want to spend $4000 for the additional 20-30hp.....(not to mention the $5000+ it'd cost to convert to a turbo set-up, and even then you're running a less durable engine)

Yes, the addition of a turbo mutes pretty engine noises, yes it introduces varying levels of turbo-lag....but it also allows much better power and most importantly for me, allows easy, inexpensive tuning for significantly more power.

Not to burst your bubble, but Yamaha had nothing to do with the LT5 in the C4 ZR1. Lotus designed it and Mercury Marine built it. http://www.zr1netregistry.com/LT5tech.htm

Anways, back on topic...I want NA. That was the point of this car from the begining, to be light weight, NA and RWD.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by MtnDrvr86

Not to burst your bubble, but Yamaha had nothing to do with the LT5 in the C4 ZR1. Lotus designed it and Mercury Marine built it. http://www.zr1netregistry.com/LT5tech.htm

Anways, back on topic...I want NA. That was the point of this car from the begining, to be light weight, NA and RWD.

Really? I could have sworn it was done with assistance from Yamaha...

Oh wells.

In that case....meh. Yamaha can still tune some engine.