Oil Starvation a Known Design Flaw?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I'll add that even the pressure at temperature issue may be overblown. I don't know that I've seen a mild to moderately tracked Twin that wasn't on R-comps or slicks or aero or F/I blow its engine due to oil starvation.

LOL Take a look above at what I was writing when you posted this!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

Soo.. not to repeat the question I just asked, but... if they're assembling the major replacement components of the engine on site, am I not once again susceptible to the same issues the recall may have caused?

Probably worrying too much.. there's probably so much pressure on the tech and the dealership that they'll be as meticulous as possible this time.. and there's no obvious evidence, at least to my eye, that they weren't the first time, either.

They have updated the instructions so there should be no application issue. They will not be removing old stuff so the contamination problem should not pop up.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by chipmunk

If it was designed intentionally by the OEM to be tracked or redlined often, then an oil cooler would have come stock. Since it doesn't come stock with a cooler, then we have to assume that the car & engine are built by the OEM to meet the original intended purpose. One shouldn't have to go for aftermarket solutions if the OEM designed it to be run that way.

Yes it is not a street-legal race car. But it is a street-legal sports car.

I repeat. They did not build a full blown track car. They built a base sport car that you can modify for your level of driving. Probably 98% of the people buying these cars will never, ever overheat their oil.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Keep in mind that those threads are for very modified racing engines. They need to address oiling issues on a level that a street or lightly tracked car don't even have to remotely consider. It is not even slightly reasonable to take those treads and apply them across all the stock or lightly modded engine cars.


Element Tuning even added that disclaimer with - "Let me remind you 325 racing slicks and over 1000 lbs of downforce"

I believe somewhere in those threads there is a plot for the temp/pressure correlation. It's possible to reach these temps without tracking.

Also if you follow that thread you will see they found no good evidence that gload has anything to do with the pressure drops. So that throws that disclaimer out the door. That thread really has to be read from start to finish because it was created as they were still developing a fix. They tried different OEM pumps, aftermarket pumps, baffles, acusumps and on and on. The fix comes as a modification to the block.

[ermax]

I will put it this way. I don't have much confidence in being able to keep this car to 200k Like I typically do with other cars. This is hands down the most entertaining car I've owned and with the direction cars are going these days I really don't see anything better coming. So I would love to be able to keep this car for the long haul and rebuild it when needed. I really hope solidsnake11's modifications are a success because most of what he did to his block would be easy to apply. If I end up doing another rebuild I suspect I could apply his fixes and it would be my last rebuild.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ermax

I will put it this way. I don't have much confidence in being able to keep this car to 200k Like I typically do with other cars. This is hands down the most entertaining car I've owned and with the direction cars are going these days I really don't see anything better coming. So I would love to be able to keep this car for the long haul and rebuild it when needed. I really hope solidsnake11's modifications are a success because most of what he did to his block would be easy to apply. If I end up doing another rebuild I suspect I could apply his fixes and it would be my last rebuild.

You have hated on the Subaru engine and actively looked for every possible flaw since you joined here. Not for one minute do I feel there were not compromises or issues but when only the extremes are considered it skews the whole perception. If temperature is an issue for you then add an oil cooler. The car was sold as easily modded to meet individual needs so just mod it.


I am done with this yet again circular argument. Carry on with your application of worst possible case scenarios to everybody as if it is the norm.

[MuseChaser]

My apologies for opening up a can of worms that I was unaware had been previously explored. I appreciate, very much, the thoughts, facts, and opinions from both sides of the issue. For the driving I do, assuming there are no glitches in assembly and based upon reassurances here, I SHOULD be fine, but will definitely be putting my obdII BT dongle and tablet to good use when I get the car back, at least until I can get some idea of what my oil temps really are for my driving habits.

I've never sold a car because of engine trouble; 200k miles per vehicle is usually my minimum target and have come close to 300K a few times, but the reason for sale/donation/scrap was never due to an engine. It was always salt destruction or eventual need for a differently-purposed vehicle. Much as I enjoy driving this car, I'm not sure if this is one I'm going to hang on to as long as all of my other ones.



Anyone interested in a 71k mile 2013 FR-S w/ a brand new engine in near-perfect stock condition? Not really serious at this point... I think...

[Gunman]

fwiw, we oil starved a Corvette LS1 engine, in one of the early Mosler MT900's. Push anything beyond what it was designed, and stuff will fail

[chipmunk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I repeat. They did not build a full blown track car. They built a base sport car that you can modify for your level of driving. Probably 98% of the people buying these cars will never, ever overheat their oil.

Advertised as a sports cars with red line 7400rpm. Subaru doesn't say "if you want to drive it spiritedly, modify it yourself!"
Every OEM and supplier designs cars & parts that can withstand Arizona summers as well as Canadian winters. Exceptions happen, but rare.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

……….. Not for one minute do I feel there were not compromises or issues but when only the extremes are considered it skews the whole perception. If temperature is an issue for you then add an oil cooler. The car was sold as easily modded to meet individual needs so just mod it.

I will agree with Tcoat here. I bought my FR-S because I wanted a relatively economical sports car, that was dependable and fun to drive. So far, my car has lived up to my expectations. My car is under the valve spring recall and I haven't done it and I doubt I will.

I never intended to track or autocross this car or run it up to redline.

I figure if I wanted to make a track beast out of it, in addition to beefing up the suspension and fitting proper tires, I would modify the engine.


humfrz

[DarkPira7e]

For what it's worth, I've had my oil temps up to 240-250 without the oil cooler ( installed one eventually) on the 0w-20 oil. This was on many many more than one occasion. I had an engine oil analysis done and came back that everything was great. I've beaten the crap out of this car, and it sees a lot of high RPM driving in the dead of winter / snowstorms. Aside the issue I had with my valve recall work ( not going into that here) my car has never had an issue, doesn't consume oil, gets 34MPG highwys, 29 city, and never is a burden to drive.

I wouldn't question this car making it to 250,000 or even 300,000 before the rust comes to claim it. I may even get the rust fixed if it seems worth it.

[7 skulls]

My anxiety is loving this thread. How hot is too hot? No one knows. How low is too low? No one knows. Too hot bad/too low bad.
Walking out to the garage now to open the box on my oil cooler, unpacking it piece by piece, looking at the aluminum An10 wrenches I bought, rattling the packages of flare savers, maybe this is the year I actually install. Or maybe not. Is worrying about oil leaks worth the cooler oil?
Ok back to worrying about aftermarket camber bolts.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

For what it's worth, I've had my oil temps up to 240-250 without the oil cooler ( installed one eventually) on the 0w-20 oil. This was on many many more than one occasion. I had an engine oil analysis done and came back that everything was great. I've beaten the crap out of this car, and it sees a lot of high RPM driving in the dead of winter / snowstorms. Aside the issue I had with my valve recall work ( not going into that here) my car has never had an issue, doesn't consume oil, gets 34MPG highwys, 29 city, and never is a burden to drive.

I wouldn't question this car making it to 250,000 or even 300,000 before the rust comes to claim it. I may even get the rust fixed if it seems worth it.

I have read many car forums and participated on 3 but have never seen such a group of guys that seemingly go out of their way to find things to worry about as the crowd on here. This continuous quest for problems goes back well before the recall so people can't even say that they have a right to be worried. They will totally disregard stories like this yet fall in line to support some guy that spun a bearing but didn't even bother to check his oil for a year.

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I have read many car forums and participated on 3 but have never seen such a group of guys that seemingly go out of their way to find things to worry about as the crowd on here. This continuous quest for problems goes back well before the recall so people can't even say that they have a right to be worried. They will totally disregard stories like this yet fall in line to support some guy that spun a bearing but didn't even bother to check his oil for a year.

Have you been on the E36 section of Bimmerforums?
Anyway, I agree, but I think the audience on the forum for this car is a bit younger than most. This seems to be the car younger people are asking for as a first car from mom and dad more often than a rotting Civic or other classic starter car to learn on. For what it's worth ,that trend plagues computer parts. I used to hate when someone would have me build a computer for them, and complain when I told them something like " Oh, We went with the Nvidia 8800GT, it's the PNY version with 512mb of RAM" and they go " oh, newegg reviews for that say it overheats". Like really? Do you think EVERY PERSON that bought this card stops in to leave a review, or just the people who are pissed off? The ones it works well for are off playing Counter-Strike, not bitching about it because they don't understand the concept of airflow and have a sealed case.