bye bye, sweet brz.

[perryair]

wow - who knew that would spark such the conversation? yes, debt/income ratio underwriting was skewed by the car loan, though ill sure enjoy having multiple hundred dollars a month 'extra' to help pay for the mortgage.

i'll add that there are few things as frivolous as a 'weekend car' other than a boat or rv or something similar, so if that needs to go to get the house that we want then so be it. houses appreciate in value, air cooled 911's appreciate in value, classic lambos and ferraris appreciate in value but a great many other cars, not so much.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I think what we have here is upbringings in two radically different socioeconomic backgrounds. You make a lot of generalizations when you say what "most people" do but I think you are basing that strictly on your own exposure to a certain group. Where I came from "most people" couldn't buy their own house until they were well into their forties if at all. "Most people" could not buy a new car EVER much less a sports car. The idea of paying to track even a junker is laughable to many since they need to eat. You seem to think that everybody has disposable income for toys. Not the real world for many. Just because they buy a house does not mean for one second that they can get a plaything in a year or two no matter how passionate they are about it.
How many kids do you have? They are expensive and cars had to wait. How many barely put food on the table jobs have you had? If you can scrape together enough to pay for a house instead of paying rent then that is the smart thing to do. That does not mean there is room for sports cars.
When I gave up my race cars to raise a family and get a home it was only "short term" as well. It took longer than I thought it would. This is the real world for MOST PEOPLE.

You don’t know anything about me old man, or what my mom did to give my brother and I as much opportunities as she could, even if it meant working two jobs and weeks of Macaroni N Cheese. You assume too much.

The fact is the OP is buying during a housing bubble and is likely paying top dollar compared to five years ago. There are very few markets in the US where it is cheaper to buy then rent. In all likelihood, the OP is selling the car to get a better interest rate or qualify for a larger loan. If he can reduce his debt to income ratio then his credit score could improve so he gets a better interest rate; a larger down payment, especially getting to the magic 20%, will reduce interest rates and avoid having to buy private mortgage insurance. This is standard stuff.

Considering the bubble, and the fact that most analysts would consider the market to be flat or to go down over the next five years, the OP must have a stable job and be in it for the long haul. He is likely doing what he is being advised to do to maximize his savings by selling the car before writing a loan. After the loan is secured then he is free to mess up that credit score.

That is, unless he is selling his car to qualify for a home at a value beyond his natural means. This would be irresponsible at any time, but pretty reckless during a housing bubble, and it was a problem we saw all too frequent during the last housing burst. I’m giving to OP some credit that he isn’t so foolish and has enough disposable income to buy responsibly. You seem to act like the man is selling the car and eating beans to scrape the money to buy a home, which isn’t responsible. Anyone who has the disposable income to buy responsibly has the means for a cheap hobby car.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

@Tcoat

You can live in a car, but you can't race a house. Priorities, man.

Also, well said. Hallelujah.

... You sure about that?...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by perryair

wow - who knew that would spark such the conversation? yes, debt/income ratio underwriting was skewed by the car loan, though ill sure enjoy having multiple hundred dollars a month 'extra' to help pay for the mortgage.

i'll add that there are few things as frivolous as a 'weekend car' other than a boat or rv or something similar, so if that needs to go to get the house that we want then so be it. houses appreciate in value, air cooled 911's appreciate in value, classic lambos and ferraris appreciate in value but a great many other cars, not so much.

Depends. My DD is my BRZ and my weekend car, but I have buddies with weekend cars that cost less than many people's iPhoneXs. They buy lifetime warrantied brake pads and get 2nd hand tires for pennies, so they can go to an autocross day at the local parking lot because race car and because driving is a passion.

While cars are definitely not an investment, homes aren't necessarily a for sure investment. The bubble we are in might persist if development continues to fall behind demand, but most people consider the housing market to stay flat or to go down. This means anyone who buys now is likely buying at a risk. They will likely lose the ability to liquidate their asset/house or to have market mobility (sell then buy to relocate for work) for at least a decade, if not longer. Anyone who is stretching their budget to buy now, at top market, is taking a bigger risk. Most who are buying responsible at this time still have some cushion for a cheap car, if that is the type of toy they have a passion for. Some might have to give up their car budget for their other passion like their coffee budget... $5 a day or $150 per month. Luckily I don't have a coffee budget.

This is a cool video:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZR_vMTLfIk"]Drawing Conclusions: Is renting really a waste of money? - YouTube[/ame]

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

You don’t know anything about me old man, or what my mom did to give my brother and I as much opportunities as she could, even if it meant working two jobs and weeks of Macaroni N Cheese. You assume too much.

The fact is the OP is buying during a housing bubble and is likely paying top dollar compared to five years ago. There are very few markets in the US where it is cheaper to buy then rent. In all likelihood, the OP is selling the car to get a better interest rate or qualify for a larger loan. If he can reduce his debt to income ratio then his credit score could improve so he gets a better interest rate; a larger down payment, especially getting to the magic 20%, will reduce interest rates and avoid having to buy private mortgage insurance. This is standard stuff.

Considering the bubble, and the fact that most analysts would consider the market to be flat or to go down over the next five years, the OP must have a stable job and be in it for the long haul. He is likely doing what he is being advised to do to maximize his savings by selling the car before writing a loan. After the loan is secured then he is free to mess up that credit score.

That is, unless he is selling his car to qualify for a home at a value beyond his natural means. This would be irresponsible at any time, but pretty reckless during a housing bubble, and it was a problem we saw all too frequent during the last housing burst. I’m giving to OP some credit that he isn’t so foolish and has enough disposable income to buy responsibly. You seem to act like the man is selling the car and eating beans to scrape the money to buy a home, which isn’t responsible. Anyone who has the disposable income to buy responsibly has the means for a cheap hobby car.

My original statement was that it was good to see somebody doing the responsible thing. You scoffed at that.
You now write a very nice piece on how he did the responsible thing.

Was not saying he would have to eat beans but simply that once the car is gone it can take many years to get back into it. Shit happens and the "next year" becomes "well maybe" next. If you truly had to scrimp to live you would understand that very simple fact of life.

[perryair]

well bless that guy's heart. i still love ya, 'old man' tcoat.

the 'housing market' plays differently in every metro area but in general housing prices are up 6.6% year on year, along with 68 straight months of price appreciation. housing inventory, while up in certain markets, is still trending downward and with new housing starts difficult to ramp up in any rapid fashion in any metro area due to zoning, nimbyism and a whole host of other factors - that tends to keep driving prices upward as supply and demand must always meet. this combined with economic factors pointing towards rising mortgage interest rates will cause the double whammy of making houses purchased in the near future more expensive to own, but also the rising inflation rates forecast as part of the same macroeconomic trend means that it will be 'cheaper' to hold current debt as opposed to future debt. this doesn't even take into account longer term effects of technologies such as airbnb, which make it easier for folks to be able to hold onto and rent out properties once they've been outgrown - or that these technologies tend to raise rents and home prices.

anyone who can correctly and accurately pinpoint a ceiling on house prices certainly has the opportunity to make literally unlimited amounts of money shorting the housing market but at least one of the larger 'bear' funds out there doing exactly that right now is down about 66% off its historical peak.

to each their own, but ill say this:
- fun cars are a hobby for most people
- to those that can or want to spend their resources doing that, more power to them, and i'll certainly return to that when the time is right
- there certainly isn't anything wrong with renting
- nor is there anything wrong with letting other people's well reasoned personal choices be well and good enough for them on their own merits

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by perryair

well bless that guy's heart. i still love ya, 'old man' tcoat.


to each their own, but ill say this:
- cars are a hobby for most people
- to those that can or want to spend their resources doing that, more power to them, and i'll certainly return to that when the time is right
- there certainly isn't anything wrong with renting
- nor is there anything wrong with letting other people's well reasoned personal choices be well and good enough for them on their own merits

That was all I said from the start!

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by perryair

well bless that guy's heart. i still love ya, 'old man' tcoat.

the 'housing market' plays differently in every metro area but in general housing prices are up 6.6% year on year, along with 68 straight months of price appreciation. housing inventory, while up in certain markets, is still trending downward and with new housing starts difficult to ramp up in any rapid fashion in any metro area due to zoning, nimbyism and a whole host of other factors - that tends to keep driving prices upward as supply and demand must always meet. this combined with economic factors pointing towards rising mortgage interest rates will cause the double whammy of making houses purchased in the near future more expensive to own, but also the rising inflation rates forecast as part of the same macroeconomic trend means that it will be 'cheaper' to hold current debt as opposed to future debt. this doesn't even take into account longer term effects of technologies such as airbnb, which make it easier for folks to be able to hold onto and rent out properties once they've been outgrown - or that these technologies tend to raise rents and home prices.

anyone who can correctly and accurately pinpoint a ceiling on house prices certainly has the opportunity to make literally unlimited amounts of money shorting the housing market but at least one of the larger 'bear' funds out there doing exactly that right now is down about 66% off its historical peak.

to each their own, but ill say this:
- fun cars are a hobby for most people
- to those that can or want to spend their resources doing that, more power to them, and i'll certainly return to that when the time is right
- there certainly isn't anything wrong with renting
- nor is there anything wrong with letting other people's well reasoned personal choices be well and good enough for them on their own merits

Good luck with the home purchase. Hopefully you can get back into something soon.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

.

The fact is the OP is buying during a housing bubble and is likely paying top dollar compared to five years ago. There are very few markets in the US where it is cheaper to buy then rent.

I'm surprised to hear you say that considering your listed location. It was way cheaper for me to own a home in Napa compared to renting

[norcalpb]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Depends. My DD is my BRZ and my weekend car, but I have buddies with weekend cars that cost less than many people's iPhoneXs. They buy lifetime warrantied brake pads and get 2nd hand tires for pennies, so they can go to an autocross day at the local parking lot because race car and because driving is a passion.

While cars are definitely not an investment, homes aren't necessarily a for sure investment. The bubble we are in might persist if development continues to fall behind demand, but most people consider the housing market to stay flat or to go down. This means anyone who buys now is likely buying at a risk. They will likely lose the ability to liquidate their asset/house or to have market mobility (sell then buy to relocate for work) for at least a decade, if not longer. Anyone who is stretching their budget to buy now, at top market, is taking a bigger risk. Most who are buying responsible at this time still have some cushion for a cheap car, if that is the type of toy they have a passion for. Some might have to give up their car budget for their other passion like their coffee budget... $5 a day or $150 per month. Luckily I don't have a coffee budget.

This is a cool video:

Give me your NMLS# or I’m reporting you to the CFPB.

Jk

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I'm surprised to hear you say that considering your listed location. It was way cheaper for me to own a home in Napa compared to renting

Right now, post fires the cost to own and rent are high, and the market was tight before, but the cost to buy has skyrocketed and the market for homes is tighter. In Ukiah, where I have family from marriage, there was an article that said there were only 15 homes for sale. The question is what is going to be the case in ten years? Will homes be more expensive or less? If things improve then rents will be down and homes will too.

[e30kawi]

To the op, I wish someone would have gave me this advice when I first bought my home, but go for the 15 year note if you can swing it. That 30 year mortgage is a scam. We refinanced to a 15 year note a couple years ago, what a difference it made every month. Actually closing on our second refinance this Saturday.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

If things improve then rents will be down and homes will too.

Historically, rent tends to only increase in price (cost) over time.

[Adam_L]

Originally Posted by Adam_L

Historically, rent tends to only increase in price (cost) over time.

They increase for a variety of reasons...inflation, land lords ( slum lords), can then take that investment property....and buy more investment properties, pay down debt ( think " I'm Tommy Vu...and I can make you rich too!!")

Either way you slice and dice it, most people need one car. If that one car is your BRZ / FRS....enjoy it, drive it. If you bought it new, hopefully you drive it 10-15+ years...spread the cost of ownership over that many years, in the end it shouldn't be too costly. It's the people who buy new, sell after 1-4 years, that get hit with the major depreciation. ...now that is a bad "investment". Think about all the thousands of people who do this 1-4 year car ritual, of buying something new...or even a few years old, only have the vehicle for a short period 1-4 years, the sell/ trade in for the next latest and greatest on the lot. Now that is the vicious cycle, car manufacturers want people to get into....like a drug habit