07-30-2012, 02:48 AM | #29 |
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Thanks guys, this thread has helped me out a lot in figuring out what I'm going to do.
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07-30-2012, 03:53 AM | #30 | |
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07-30-2012, 09:44 AM | #31 | |
Excellent post Moto! Tire choice is the first question I ask when discussing suspension options with a client as it dictates how firm we need the suspension to be.
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Our goal was max grip for a sporty street tire with good ride quality and a fast, fun, easy to drive neutral balance. We did try a few other configurations... - andrew |
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08-05-2012, 09:02 PM | #32 |
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so it would seem that the general consensus is that lowering the car about an inch and a half while keeping the spring rates close to stock and the dampers softer rather than harder will allow you to bring the car down some while not destroying the inherent handling properties?
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08-05-2012, 10:19 PM | #33 | |
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An inch and half drop with spring rates similar to stock is going to leave you with extremely little suspension travel and if the spring rates are close to stock it will use it up very quick. Bad news. Awful ride and handling. With regards to the dampers, it's more complicated than just softer or harder. - Andrew |
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08-05-2012, 11:26 PM | #34 | |
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08-05-2012, 11:32 PM | #35 | ||
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i use the same setup on my is300, but it didnt handle anywhere near as well as the fr-s from the factory, so there wasnt much worry about making it worse. |
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08-05-2012, 11:47 PM | #36 | ||
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I appreciate the education you are trying to provide people, but suspension tuning isn't a scary endeavor. Yes, you can do it wrong, and there is no replacement for quality when it comes to part selection. But while the stock setup is good, there are plenty of ways to improve upon it without being a "pro". Goodluck to everyone on your setups! Matt Andrews
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08-07-2012, 07:11 AM | #37 | |
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For me there seem to be two basic directions for suspension setup out there: "Aesthetic" or "Performance". Oftentimes people's parts choices and setup are the result of wanting to achieve a "look" or aesthetic. Nothing wrong with that. But its important to keep in mind that what looks cool doesn't necessarily mean it will handle well nor, for the track oriented, improve your lap times. So what Moto has been trying to get across is that the typical tuning notion of "lower/stiffer" does not equal "faster" or better handling. Unfortunately, just because the car "handles like a go kart" doesn't mean it actually handles well. The "Performance" oriented folk set their car up for the best handling possible for their situation, the look of the car will be what it will be. Their ride height comes from properly analyzing the tire type, spring/swaybar rate, geometry compromise and suspension travel. Warning Rant : As an aside, an interesting dynamic I'm seeing on this board is the cynism and mistrust many have with vendor input or claims. I guess its bad experience from other boards. I can understand that, because in the end, they all "just" want to sell you something. There are however, a few vendors out there who are enthusiasts first and foremost and I think people will see that over time through the quality of their posts and the kind of neutral information that benefits this growing community. From my experience with them on the Subaru and Evo boards, Race Comp Engineering is one of those vendors. Am I an employee? Nah, but I do like their proper approach to the development of parts. I don't think I've actually ever bought anything from them. For example, they don't just pick a random amount of lowering like "I think 30mm will look dope on this car". Performance is always utmost on their minds. They take the time to properly dyno test the dampers to see what they are capable of, measure the stroke, map out the geometry of the car and THEN consider what spring rate and amount of lowering will actually improve the handling of the car. And they are totally transparent in the development of these parts. You just need to search their threads on NASIOC to see how they went about developing their Bilstein setup for the current WRX. What we get as consumers are parts that work well FIRST, they MAY happen to look good. The kind of lowering spring offerings is honestly something I'm surprised at living in Germany. Its ironic but here the "lower/wider" crowd really drives the aftermarket rather than the "peformance" crowd. Pretty much all lowering springs are minimum 30mm and often times 50mm recommend for stock dampers! And these are from reputable manufacturers like Eibach and H&R. You'd think they'd know better here. I just shake my head and wonder, have they even measured the stroke on the car's damper? 50mm easily sits most car's on their bumpstops. And then the spring rate is not much stiffer than stock (to maintain stock comfort levels). I just sit in disbelief sometimes. Sorry for the rant! Back to the topic at hand. |
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08-07-2012, 11:27 AM | #38 |
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This is a great discussion happening.
In my case I'm somewhat knowledgable about suspension setup (no pro) and my needs are a blend of looks, comfort and serious performance on a budget (yeah, unattainable holy grail, I know) so I'm finding this information very useful. Very grateful to everyone who has taken time to contribute. Side note: The level of intensity here is nothing compared to Miata.net or the SCCA boards which is GOOD! Considering that this is a young board with a diverse audience revolving around a new car I think we're doing fine here. The main points that I'm taking away from is thread are that: 1. You need to consider your needs carefully before proceeding in a particular direction. 2. You need to face the reality that you'll have to compromise as each approach will have definite pros and cons. 3. It takes a combination of discussion and experience to gain good knowledge about exactly what the pros and cons of certain approaches are. 4. In the end you need to make up your own mind. Neither 1. or 2. are exactly rocket science but they're both VERY easy to forget no matter how experienced you are! The better you do at 1,2 and 3 the less likely you are to end up being broke and unhappy once you reach 4.
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08-17-2012, 06:58 PM | #39 | |
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08-17-2012, 09:57 PM | #40 | |
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Too many people assume that a faster machine will make them a faster driver... It may change the experience, lap times may improve, but the best upgrade that can be made to ANY car is the driver. |
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08-24-2012, 03:40 PM | #41 |
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After reading all of this I am still a little confused about if it is possible to lower the car enough to remove the ugly wheel gap with a set of coils without ruining the handling.
I will be upgrading to 18's and using Tein Flex. |
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08-27-2012, 07:51 PM | #42 |
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Jade I'm the same way, want to get rid of the ugly gap but also want to retain performance and improve it. Might want to go with 18s in the future with 235s all around. Or the work cr kai staggered set up.
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