Failure After J02 Recall - Discussion Threads

[maslin]

Originally Posted by Magoo

From what I've read from the JO2 TECHNICAL INSTRUCTIONS .pdf the valve cover gasket gets replaced, not the head gasket.

So, if they're scraping any sealant, it's from there.

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Sealant not Seal. If someone managed to drop a valve cover gasket in the pan and forget it they're having a bad day.

Mercedes has been harping on proper clean up and resealing for years and years. Sealant application is specified as a bead width, usually 1-2mm. Even a 1mm bead of sealant clamped between 2 machined flat metal surfaces spreads out really wide.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

The sealant is not from the valve cover gaskets, its form the front cover.

The sealant for this job goes on the timing cover, valve cover and cam caps. Yes the valve cover gasket is rubber but you still apply sealant in a few places to aid the rubber gasket. There is a significant amount of sealant to scrape off the cam caps though.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ichima

Also had my headgaskets replaced while there. I want to understand after pulling motor apart the tech drove a total of 2 miles and though everything would be okay. Is it sufficient to drive 2 miles after doing major motor work to thjnk everything is okay?

Yes it is OK. A problem may show up hundreds or even thousands of miles after repair work so they have to draw the line someplace. The majority of the time and serious issue will show up pretty quick though so a couple of miles is fine. Some don't even drive it that far.

[DarkPira7e]

Update- they say they haven't found anything yet that points to why my rod bearing 4 was eaten. I drove over and took a couple pictures...





These two in particular seem worth holding onto

[maslin]

That's a lot of sealant. Like a whole lot. One or two of those broken off in the pan and you're done.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

Update- they say they haven't found anything yet that points to why my rod bearing 4 was eaten. I drove over and took a couple pictures...





These two in particular seem worth holding onto

That stuff is black. Threebond 1217H is gray. So right off the bat it looks like they didn't use the right stuff. That may not be the real issue but shows they aren't doing it by the book. It's also interesting that they haven't pulled the rockers, pivots and shims and indexed them. They are just asking to fall on the floor. Did you get any pictures of the timing cover? I see the crank on the floor so apparently they split the block. I'm curious how the pickup screen looked.

[maslin]

That really is a massive amount of sealant. See how it bleeds over to the next part? That's one issue. The other is all those strings to push out the sides, as much goes in as out. They aren't really attached and can easily falling off and clog the screen.

[N234]

Originally Posted by Opie

If anyone has this type of failure (ie; knocking, bearing failure) after the recall insist that the dealer who did the repair pull the oil pan and inspect the oil pickup in your presence. Also have them use a boroscope to look inside the pickup. These types of failures occur when they let old sealant & debris fall into the engine during the recall. It plugs the oil pickup and oil starves the engine. It's a dealership workmanship issue.

Should be added to OP. OP can you add a chart of the common failure modes and frequencies?

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[atomicalex]

Originally Posted by maslin

Almost 100% chance the sealant is either being removed or applied incorrectly.

I work for one of the big sealant and adhesive suppliers. Liquid injectable gasketing is pretty state of the art, and it's been practiced for about 15 years.

Those sealant lines are pretty ridiculous. Modern cars are not built to use much of anything, and certainly not litres of liquid gasket.

If someone can get hold of a crank with the failure, check the bore for the oil galley to the failed rod bearing. It will surely be closed up with something. If it were to be pushed through to the bearing face, the material would smear and burn. This could lead to carbonization, which would be identifiable on the journal faces.

The fact that the failures are so heavily skewed to Toyota shops indicates it is a reassembly issue - it's not hard at all to dismantle an engine, but it is quite difficult to get it back together properly if you are completely unfamiliar with it and the necessary prep work during disassembly. Were there also failures on Subies, it would be more difficult to assign the fault. However, Subie techs would know exactly where and how much sealant to apply to their standard boxers. The apples fall not so far from the tree, so it is unlikely this motor deviates significantly from standard Subaru assembly technique.


<-- armchair failure analyst, has done technical background on engine class-actions before and willing to address this from the chemistry side

[N234]

Originally Posted by DarkPira7e

Proposing we leave an entry here for reference. This is not an argument thread about whether or not you should have participated in a voluntary recall, this is to document that your failure occured using a simple template. Please refrain from calling out your specific dealership.

Vehicle Mileage:
Vehicle Make:
Mileage After Recall Performed:
Symptom(s):
Failure:
State:
Dealership Offering Repair:

Most common failure mode seems to be the spun bearings, with many posts laying the blame on old sealant debris left in the engine after service.

Would you kindly mention this in the OP, and possibly summarize some other common failures in the OP as well?

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[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by N234

Most common failure mode seems to be the spun bearings, with many posts laying the blame on old sealant debris left in the engine after service.

Would you kindly mention this in the OP, and possibly summarize some other common failures in the OP as well?

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I'm hesitant to update because we barely have enough evidence to suggest what a common causality would be for these. I have no problem agreeing that it likely is, but I'm trying to keep explicit bias, generalization, and finger pointing out of my original post.

[subaru]

Wow, I knew this would happen.

This very well maybe our last Subaru after 8. This could have been done 4 years ago if Subaru was not afraid to give themselves the bad press of everyone knowing their newest highly used powerplants has a fatal flaw based upon cost cutting.

BOoo.


Can someone clarify something for me? I was under the impression at least in my state the car would have special coverage on engine warranty after this recall is done. Am I confused?

Is there any possibility of a class action against subaru for not recalling this once they knew about it and also apparently not having a proper applicable fix? They should be buying our cars back at this point as nobody in the right mind is going to want to buy a used 2013.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by subaru

Wow, I knew this would happen.

This very well maybe our last Subaru after 8. This could have been done 4 years ago if Subaru was not afraid to give themselves the bad press of everyone knowing their newest highly used powerplants has a fatal flaw based upon cost cutting.

BOoo.


Can someone clarify something for me? I was under the impression at least in my state the car would have special coverage on engine warranty after this recall is done. Am I confused?

Is there any possibility of a class action against subaru for not recalling this once they knew about it and also apparently not having a proper applicable fix? They should be buying our cars back at this point as nobody in the right mind is going to want to buy a used 2013.

Subaru did issue a recall when they found out about it. It's not like VW who knew they were cheating, then tried to cover it up.



Unrelated: I find it interesting that haven't seen and BRZ owners posting any issues after taking the car in for the recall, only FRSs. Could it be just an issue of Toyota dealership techs not being used to working on boxer engines, thus misapplying sealant or making other errors on things specific to them?

[DarkPira7e]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

Unrelated: I find it interesting that haven't seen and BRZ owners posting any issues after taking the car in for the recall, only FRSs. Could it be just an issue of Toyota dealership techs not being used to working on boxer engines, thus misapplying sealant or making other errors on things specific to them?

I think it's one of two things. Lackluster tech effort, or that Toyota issued the recall and started repairs faster. We have such a small sample size it's hard to tell, but I think the amount of Toyotas serviced to this date far exceeds the amount of Subarus on this forum. Any tech working on an engine should understand the concept enough to not make fatal mistakes. Life does happen though, and complacent mindsets are most often root cause with things like this.

Or us Toyota/Scion owners have bigger mouths