Preferred downshifting method?

[Jfheisenberg]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Over thinking the whole thing once again! If it feels right do it. If not don't.

This is so true. I been driving for a little more than a year on my BRZ (first manual trans car) and at first i was over thinking the whole thing too much and it was messing up the first few days. But now i just do it without thinking too much and my revmatch on downshift are solid 99% of the time.

[hypebrz]

I don't really know how to explain this... but I learned standard on a motorcycle, and I drive my car the same way I ride. Clutch in, put in gear, then release clutch and push gas at the same time. What "method" is that exactly? I didn't even know there was more than one way to drive a stick. What the heck is rev matching lol?

[Luftwaffel]

Originally Posted by hypebrz

I don't really know how to explain this... but I learned standard on a motorcycle, and I drive my car the same way I ride. Clutch in, put in gear, then release clutch and push gas at the same time. What "method" is that exactly? I didn't even know there was more than one way to drive a stick. What the heck is rev matching lol?

Matching the transmission and engine speed so you don't get driveline lash?

[ScoobsMcGee]

Originally Posted by Tectoniic

I prefer the paddle on the steering wheel for downshifting

Just gave that a shot. The cruise control turned on for some reason.

[FirestormFlex]

All I know is - I've owned manual transmission vehicles my entire life - and I drive all of my cars to 100k miles or more. I hold the clutch in at just about every stop light everywhere I go. NEVER have I worn out a clutch or throwout bearing.

[Wired86]

Originally Posted by hypebrz

I don't really know how to explain this... but I learned standard on a motorcycle, and I drive my car the same way I ride. Clutch in, put in gear, then release clutch and push gas at the same time. What "method" is that exactly? I didn't even know there was more than one way to drive a stick. What the heck is rev matching lol?

Lol. This is exactly what I do. If you give it enough gas it gives you a pretty smooth transition into the lower gear. I am just going to keep doing that and am going to stop holding the clutch in at stoplights. Still going to coast into the stops though. I am nowhere close to fast enough to downshift in time before making it to the light. I will piss so many people off because I will have to start down shifting so far away from the light. I will keep trying to downshift as much as possible and try to learn the other methods, but right now they are confusing as hell with all the different opinions and without knowing when to use which one.

[hypebrz]

Originally Posted by Luftwaffel

Matching the transmission and engine speed so you don't get driveline lash?

Spot on

[hypebrz]

Originally Posted by Wired86

Lol. This is exactly what I do. If you give it enough gas it gives you a pretty smooth transition into the lower gear. I am just going to keep doing that and am going to stop holding the clutch in at stoplights. Still going to coast into the stops though. I am nowhere close to fast enough to downshift in time before making it to the light. I will piss so many people off because I will have to start down shifting so far away from the light. I will keep trying to downshift as much as possible and try to learn the other methods, but right now they are confusing as hell with all the different opinions and without knowing when to use which one.

If I'm coming up to a stop and say in like 5th gear or whatever (example, red light on a highway) I just clutch in, move from 5th to 1st, stop, then take off from 1st. Is that not how it's supposed to be done lol? Do people actually go 5th,4th,3rd,2nd,1st?

[track junkie]

Originally Posted by Wired86

Rev matching is essentially what I said that I've been doing right? Just clutch, neutral, lower gear, gas to right rpm as I pull the clutch out. Is that right for normal driving? It feels right. When I do it to the proper rpm, there isn't any jerking or excessive acceleration.

This is easier, faster, and smoother when you are downshifting on the street. You don't need to shift to neutral it's unnecessary.

1. Clutch in
2. blip throttle
3. shift to lower gear
4. release clutch

[Luftwaffel]

Originally Posted by hypebrz

If I'm coming up to a stop and say in like 5th gear or whatever (example, red light on a highway) I just clutch in, move from 5th to 1st, stop, then take off from 1st. Is that not how it's supposed to be done lol? Do people actually go 5th,4th,3rd,2nd,1st?

Well you have literally no power in 5th gear at 20 mph, and you're probably lugging the engine pretty good, so yes I do downshift, maybe not necessarily in that order. It's a good idea to stay in gear, just in case shit happens. If the guy behind me is about to smash into me because he's texting, another car comes flying at me head on for whatever stupid reason, etc, you better believe I'm getting out of the way, or at least giving it my best effort.

[shellslinger]

I rev match most of the time when downshift for smoother transition. Heel toe'ing is fun! It's so easy to heel toe in this car.

[driftartist]

for me, i usually downshift to the gear that is 1 number less than the current gear. so ill numerically go down one. example: 5th gear ill go down to 4th...etc.

i say this because rev matching should be the only method as it will save your friction disk.

[CelicaJoe]

I just started driving manual back in late August and have put around 12k on my car since then and never really looked up what I'm supposed to do but I'm glad I came across this thread because I hold the clutch in at every light and usually use it over braking honestly..nobody ever taught me to drive though. Any other suggestions anyone would have if they were explaining the do's and don'ts to a 6 year old?

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by hypebrz

What the heck is rev matching lol?

Luftwaffel defined it above, but to put it into easier terms:

This has to do with engine braking, using the compression of the engine to slow the car. If you downshift to use the engine to slow the car, the engine speed (RPM) has to come UP to meet the transmission speed. If you just downshift and drop the clutch, the car's momentum will yank the engine up to speed and shock the entire driveline behind it: transmission, u-joints, differential and axles. You can slip the clutch to bring up the engine speed less abruptly, but that puts more wear on the clutch disc over time.

However, imagine instead that you bring the engine RPM up with the throttle instead, so that it's spinning fast enough that there is no jerk, and you don't have to slip the clutch. That's rev matching. You just blip the throttle up so that the engine speed and transmission input shaft speed match. It puts less wear on the clutch and every component behind it.

Some cars actually rev match for you. The latest Corvette will do it. Apparently you can flash a tune on our cars that will do it also. The computer recognizes when you're downshifting and blips the throttle on your behalf to make your downshifts smoother.

I've been wondering what happens if you try to downshift and the car also tries to downshift.

Originally Posted by Wired86

Okay. This is probably a stupid question now, but how do I downshift without rev matching?

Most people who use engine braking without rev matching simply slip their clutch to bring up the engine speed. Doing that puts more wear on the clutch surface and springs, but it won't necessarily hurt the car. Maybe it takes 5K or 10K miles off the clutch. Maybe not.

Originally Posted by Luftwaffel

Syncros do all the work for you. Any downshift blipping/rev matching, heel toe, etc is all above and beyond the necessary.

You're right that heel/toe isn't necessary in normal street driving. Rev matching is a good skill to have, though, because that's not really about what's necessary. It's about driving more smoothly and putting less wear on the car. Maybe it'll last a long time without any advanced techniques. Maybe it would last even longer with them.

Originally Posted by SmileyMe

Wait, so to confirm do not hold down the clutch at like a stop light? Have I been doing this wrong the whole time?

Not wrong. It's just that the throwout bearing and pressure plate will get less wear if you get into the habit of taking the car out of gear and letting the clutch out when you're going to be sitting long enough for that to make sense. How much less wear? Who knows. Maybe it's not enough to even matter. But it doesn't really hurt anything to do it.

I usually watch the traffic lights or pedestrian signal on the cross street. When it turns yellow, I put the car back in gear to be ready to go.

Originally Posted by hypebrz

If I'm coming up to a stop and say in like 5th gear or whatever (example, red light on a highway) I just clutch in, move from 5th to 1st, stop, then take off from 1st. Is that not how it's supposed to be done lol? Do people actually go 5th,4th,3rd,2nd,1st?

The part that may not have been clear is that people are talking about engine braking, using engine compression to slow the car instead of/in addition to the wheel brakes. So as that applies to your question, I do in fact step down through the gears one at a time to slow the car. I normally use the engine to slow the car without even thinking about it.

It's a stylistic choice. If I weren't using engine braking, I would do it exactly like you're doing it.

The next obvious question is: Why do I use engine braking?

For one thing, it's smoother and feels more stable. When you use the brake pedal, the car wants to rock forward. Accelerate again and the car rocks back. Use engine braking, and it feels more like the stopping force is more centered.

Second, it keeps you in the correct gear. Suppose traffic in front of me slows down, and I use engine braking to slow down also. Then traffic takes off again. I'm already in the correct gear to accelerate. Suppose I'm in a slow-moving lane, and I get a chance to slip into a hole in a faster-moving lane. The car is already set up for that move before I even know I have the chance to make it.

See, I was taught to always be driving the car. A lot of people are only really driving the car when they're accelerating. If you take the car out of gear and coast to the stop light, coasting really isn't driving. I like to drive the car right up to a stop, ready to drive away from it.