Scion FT-86 FR-S

[2jz-gte4life]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Guess you didn't pay much attention in class. Difference between you and me is that I can back up what I say because I'VE DONE IT.


- And Just fyi...all the street races mentioned were with me being on 8-9lbs of boost on a small 16G turbo, not some crap load of boost, or some large turbo...just want to put that out there so there is no mistake or assumptions on what I was running when I beat those cars.

Street races?

Are you serious, don't make me go ape shit like i did to this other guy on this forum.

Get that shit out here, building cars to go faster is great , that's why Tracks exist, but to start racing on public streets is a big no-no.

Real men with real cars take it to the track

Your just a kid with a kids car who takes it to the street

Pure ricer, i don't care how much hp your cars has, boy i wish i could put you in your place at the track

[Matador]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

Honestly, this is a widely flawed statement.. You can, for example, get a evo 6 for what 20k in oz so 15 us?? With 10k of mods (again parts only assuming free labour) it would wipe the floor with a tc both being driven by same driver (unbiased 3rd party)
Or you can get a Mid to late 90's sti (10-15k in oz) and put whatever the difference between it and total of 27 is and it will shit all over the tc costing same amount..

They can't get any evo before the 7 in the US

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

- Yes

- Nissan Sentra, 97 Toyota Corolla, 95 Toyota Corolla, Buick Regal, Nissan 350z, Scion tC, Infiniti FX35

- 30

- Price and options it came with were unmatched by other cars in it's class.


Races were done on the street from a roll on the interstate, making driving irrelevant. In the case of the Z, it was against my own 350z making driving even more irrelevant. My fiance was in the tC and I was in the Z from the start, then we swapped cars. It's not a drivers race when one car puts a bus length on the other. I put 10 cars on my own 350z, 6-8 cars on a stock STI, about 4 cars on an Evo IX MR. Of course my Z isn't the only one I've raced. These are all on video as well (except for the other 350z's since I didn't have my cam with me and it was a random encounter).

a) I enjoy driving my tC, that's rather apparent. And I would not trade it in for an Evo. I'd rather own both if I were to get an Evo. If I had to pick a car I would trade my tC for, it would have to be no short of an R35 GTR.

b) Not brand new you can't.

OK, so;

You got your tC principally because of price and options. Cool. Valid reason to purchase. Can't argue with that.

Now, I got the impression that you beat these cars around a track, perhaps at a time attack or track day. You were referring to highway rolls? Are you effing kidding me?

Anyway, Cool that you enjoy driving your tC as it is now, How much did you enjoy driving it stock?

Obviously you can't get an Evo brand new for the same price as a tC, but it is much more performance car than the tC is.


Anyway, c'mon guys lets not do this useless arguing back and forth.

I think we have gotten pretty side tracked. I think we can all accept that Scion is **not** a performance driven brand. I don't think it was ever meant to be. I think we can all accept as well, that there are serious young tuners who do drive scions; Everybody has to start somewhere. The tC is a pretty good car for what it is and what it offers; could be better, but it is what it is. I think most performance people in here have a problem with the way scion is marketed, and would prefer it to take a more serious approach, rather than the approach that is taken now. That doesn't preclude scion from making a performance car, but I think the point that most of the "anti-scion" sentiment stems from the fact that we want the ft-86 to be the best that it can be, we want it to be around for generations to come, and we want it to sell well enough to make Toyota recognize that people do want performance Toyotas and that it will inspire them to build more sports cars and sporty models. And that it would achieve that best coming out as a Toyota.

Anybody disagree?

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by 2jz-gte4life

Street races?

Are you serious, don't make me go ape shit like i did to this other guy on this forum.

Get that shit out here, building cars to go faster is great , that's why Tracks exist, but to start racing on public streets is a big no-no.

Real men with real cars take it to the track

Your just a kid with a kids car who takes it to the street

Pure ricer, i don't care how much hp your cars has, boy i wish i could put you in your place at the track

Have you been paying ANY attention?

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Guess you didn't pay much attention in class. Difference between you and me is that I can back up what I say because I'VE DONE IT.


- And Just fyi...all the street races mentioned were with me being on 8-9lbs of boost on a small 16G turbo, not some crap load of boost, or some large turbo...just want to put that out there so there is no mistake or assumptions on what I was running when I beat those cars.

1st 8-9lb of boost isnt exactly little on 10:1 comp.. I dont think u get how that works but..
2nd I payed enough attention to finish uni with a really good gpa..
3rd I'm over arguing with a brick

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

They can't get any evo before the 7 in the US



OK, so;

You got your tC principally because of price and options. Cool. Valid reason to purchase. Can't argue with that.

Now, I got the impression that you beat these cars around a track, perhaps at a time attack or track day. You were referring to highway rolls? Are you effing kidding me?

Can you guys PLEASE, PLEASE Stick to ONE story or Excuse PLEASE. You can NOT have your cake and eat it to. May I PLEASE break it down for you because it is apparent that you are having trouble remembering things from only just a few pages back!

I am going to lay this down for you the way a 3rd grader can understand this (no offense, I just want to make sure it is 100% CLEAR).

- I POSTED TRACK VIDEOS a few pages back! The conversation (excuse) for me beating the S2k (stock and modded), 2010/11 Mustang GT, Miata's, EF Civic Hatck, Vette....etc went as such...

Other Readers:

- "Well, no doubt he seems to be a good driver. Therefore he simply driving better than those other guys and it isn't so much the car he built cause Scions suck"

In not so many words that was the response to my TRACK videos I posted back a few pages.

Someone laid a challenge that I couldn't beat these other cars listed that "SUPPOSEDLY" cost $10k more than a tC to which I replied that I have already beaten those before and your EXCUSE and Explanation for me winning was:

-"Well you beat them because you were a better driver".

I describe to you that THOSE kills (with the Evo, STI, my own 350z...etc) were not the track kills, those were the street kills BACK WHEN I WAS (PAST TENSE HERE) street racing! And therefore did not require DRIVING SKILLS at the same degree as my Track Kills.

Now you come back and try and jab at me because they were not on the track.

You Make BACK PEDAL and contradict yourself all for the Sake of not giving the car itself...Credit. If it's at the Track you say Driver. If it's in the street, you say You get no credit because it's not at the track. A pure avoidance at giving the Car itself credit for being quick or having decent handling.

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Anyway, Cool that you enjoy driving your tC as it is now, How much did you enjoy driving it stock?

I've answered that question already.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

1st 8-9lb of boost isnt exactly little on 10:1 comp.. I dont think u get how that works but..
2nd I payed enough attention to finish uni with a really good gpa..
3rd I'm over arguing with a brick

9:6.1 compression Stock. I've told you this Already. I'm over arguing with people who can't even recall what has already been posted.

Last time I'm going to post this.

2005-2006 = 9:6.1 Compression Stock

2007-2010 = 9:8.1 Compression Stock

2011 = 10:4.1 Compression Stock

My tC is a 2006.

Originally Posted by 2jz-gte4life

Street races?

Are you serious, don't make me go ape shit like i did to this other guy on this forum.

Get that shit out here, building cars to go faster is great , that's why Tracks exist, but to start racing on public streets is a big no-no.

Real men with real cars take it to the track

Your just a kid with a kids car who takes it to the street

Pure ricer, i don't care how much hp your cars has, boy i wish i could put you in your place at the track

Maybe I was a little harder on you. But you are just now joining the conversation, so let me catch You up to speed.


From my street racing days: (Past TENSE)

my tC at 7-8lbs of boost vs my own 350z

vs my friends modded MS3 (280whp)

Tuning at 12lbs of boost (40-120mph run)

!!!!!AS IT SITS TODAY!!!!!!

- SOLD THE TURBO SETUP because I'm making room for my NEW turbo Setup, and therefore running Stock HP


STOCK HP tC!!!!!!! .....vs S2k, Miata, 2010/11 Mustang GT, Roush Supercharged Mustang GT, EF Civic hatch, Porsche.....AT THE RACE TRACK!!!!

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Part 4:

ALL I DO IS TRACK RACE TODAY! There are 50+ Racing and drifting (my 350z) videos in my Youtube and Streetfire accounts...all of me Including when I ran in the Redline Time Attack Competition. These are but a couple of vids, there are PLENTY more, and PLENTY more will be made.

vvv If you Haven't noticed the SIG below...hello, car wouldn't look like that if I was just a Street racer.

[70NYD]

[sarcasm] 9:6.1?? Damn that's low compression. That's 1.5:1..
[/sarcasm]
FYI I understand what you meant to say..

[Dragonitti]

I've beaten higher grade cars at a race track while I'm currently under Stock HP
-You say it's my driving

I've beaten even higher grade cars on the street when I was on my old turbo setup (where it's more the car than it is the driver)
-You say it don't count cause it's not at the track


In either situation none man up and say the car is quick for what it is and try and make it out to be something else other than the car I have built. Don't know if that's denial or simple wanting to ignore what a tC can do with the right guy, but what I do know, is that this has become a waste of time because you can't even see past your own bias. I'm done with 20 questions, as the answers I have given and evidence I have shown will never see a means to an end.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

9:6.1 compression Stock. I've told you this Already. I'm over arguing with people who can't even recall what has already been posted.

Last time I'm going to post this.

2005-2006 = 9:6.1 Compression Stock

2007-2010 = 9:8.1 Compression Stock

2011 = 10:4.1 Compression Stock

My tC is a 2006.







Maybe I was a little harder on you. But you are just now joining the conversation, so let me catch You up to speed.


From my street racing days: (Past TENSE)

my tC at 7-8lbs of boost vs my own 350z

vs my friends modded MS3 (280whp)

Tuning at 12lbs of boost (40-120mph run)

!!!!!AS IT SITS TODAY!!!!!!

- SOLD THE TURBO SETUP because I'm making room for my NEW turbo Setup, and therefore running Stock HP


STOCK HP tC!!!!!!! .....vs S2k, Miata, 2010/11 Mustang GT, Roush Supercharged Mustang GT, EF Civic hatch, Porsche.....AT THE RACE TRACK!!!!

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Part 4:

ALL I DO IS TRACK RACE TODAY! There are 50+ Racing and drifting (my 350z) videos in my Youtube and Streetfire accounts...all of me Including when I ran in the Redline Time Attack Competition. These are but a couple of vids, there are PLENTY more, and PLENTY more will be made.

vvv If you Haven't noticed the SIG below...hello, car wouldn't look like that if I was just a Street racer.

You're '90s 'I just turbo'd my swapped Honda' attitude isn't winning any friends here, Dragonitti.

I'm still puzzled over the magical 280whp on 9psi 2AZFE. You don't even have an IC listed. I'm assuming you forgot to list it...

What rpm is your power peak at? Have you raised the rev limit? Also what dyno type and conditions (was it corrected to STP)?

The only thing that you've made me think about is, if this isn't BS and no secret NOS is involved (either for the 280whp on 9 psi, or the 110mph trap with 280whp), then what is the secret of the Camry motor...

Maybe you can fill me in on a few things.

Here's what I know:

2.4L Inline 4 cylinder, open-deck aluminum block, DOHC 16v, VVT-i on the intake, fine mist injectors (compared to my old Supra), 88.5mm bore by 96mm stroke for 2362cc total displacement, 9.6:1 CR (varies by year)
160 hp @ 5600 rpm (varies slightly by year)
163 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm (ditto)
124 hp @ 4000 rpm (working back from torque)
6500 rpm redline

At peak hp the motor is consuming about 237 cfm
At peak hp the motor requires 1.48 cfm/hp @ 5600 rpm
At peak torque the motor is consuming about 169 cfm
At peak torque the motor requires 1.36 cfm/hp @ 4000 rpm

There is nothing miraculous here.

I'm assuming it's a coil on plug setup and other typical 'current' stuff.

Could you maybe explain to me (and everyone else that's interested) what makes this engine so good/boost friendly? Coated chambers/pistons? Advanced knock-control?

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Dimman

You're '90s 'I just turbo'd my swapped Honda' attitude isn't winning any friends here, Dragonitti.

I'm still puzzled over the magical 280whp on 9psi 2AZFE. You don't even have an IC listed. I'm assuming you forgot to list it...

What rpm is your power peak at? Have you raised the rev limit? Also what dyno type and conditions (was it corrected to STP)?

The only thing that you've made me think about is, if this isn't BS and no secret NOS is involved (either for the 280whp on 9 psi, or the 110mph trap with 280whp), then what is the secret of the Camry motor...

Maybe you can fill me in on a few things.

Here's what I know:

2.4L Inline 4 cylinder, open-deck aluminum block, DOHC 16v, VVT-i on the intake, fine mist injectors (compared to my old Supra), 88.5mm bore by 96mm stroke for 2362cc total displacement, 9.6:1 CR (varies by year)
160 hp @ 5600 rpm (varies slightly by year)
163 lb-ft @ 4000 rpm (ditto)
124 hp @ 4000 rpm (working back from torque)
6500 rpm redline

At peak hp the motor is consuming about 237 cfm
At peak hp the motor requires 1.48 cfm/hp @ 5600 rpm
At peak torque the motor is consuming about 169 cfm
At peak torque the motor requires 1.36 cfm/hp @ 4000 rpm

There is nothing miraculous here.

I'm assuming it's a coil on plug setup and other typical 'current' stuff.

Could you maybe explain to me (and everyone else that's interested) what makes this engine so good/boost friendly? Coated chambers/pistons? Advanced knock-control?

No tricks, no secrets it is what it is.

http://www.scionlife.com/forums/show...al+Dyno+thread

(specs for peoples setup and dyno sheets can be found via the "See Post" links).


13.7-13.5 @ 108-109mph traps (9-10lbs of boost on 16G turbo and 10.0 A/F ratios which made it hard to find a consistent launch as I would bog going into 2nd if I didn't do it right) The other tC running mid 14's is my friend. He was running no intercooler, stock injectors, 16G turbo, and Emanage Blue @ 6lbs of boost (which typically dyno's 230-240whp on a dynojet).

[toper]

wow tc's got some fine stock motor there very boost friendly indeed. Our 4banger 06+ eclipses are having a hard time handling atleast 8 boost..

[Dragonitti]

^^A Wolf in Sheeps clothing sorta speak. You want the 2az to come alive...You turbo it. TRD Supercharger won't net you any significant power....but a turbo...She loves Snails. You are of course going to get a variation of whp numbers at same boost levels because some are running 3 inch exhaust vs 2.5, turbo specs, manifold specs, dyno specs, tuning...etc.

But you can expect anywhere from 260whp - 300whp @ 8lbs of boost. You will blow the block when you are in the range of 350-400whp depending on the tune. Keep it 350whp or less for a safety margin if you plan to race on a stock motor. Or if you want to get 100k miles or more for a daily driver keep it at 300whp or less with a stock motor and just do your normal maintenance.

The new 2011 tC you can expect 300-320whp @ 8lbs of boost DynoJet (using a dynapack one put down 333whp/303wtq @ 8lbs on the Descendant turbo kit, but those dyno's read rather high imo).


A GREAT fundamental difference between a TRD S/C'ed tC and a Turbo tC.

Example is Me vs My friends fully bolted on TRD S/C running a 9.5psi pulley (He dynoed like 240whp/180-190wtq if I recall correctly. Problem with that though is that it's 240whp @ Redline since it's a Centrifugal Supercharger)

[nate89]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

What car would you spend spend $10k more for in stock form that you feel would beat my tC? Brand new or used that will be good enough in stock form to out run me at the race track.

You don't even know the definition of contradiction do you?

I was not under the impression we were talking about Used cars. As a used tC goes for $6-8k and not $20k. Don't compare a used up car to that of a brand new one that has been modded.....

Looks like you forgot your own argument...

Races were done on the street from a roll on the interstate, making driving irrelevant. In the case of the Z, it was against my own 350z making driving even more irrelevant. My fiance was in the tC and I was in the Z from the start, then we swapped cars. It's not a drivers race when one car puts a bus length on the other. I put 10 cars on my own 350z, 6-8 cars on a stock STI, about 4 cars on an Evo IX MR. Of course my Z isn't the only one I've raced. These are all on video as well (except for the other 350z's since I didn't have my cam with me and it was a random encounter).

It does make it a drivers race when there are two different drivers. You say you put 10 lengths on your own Z. I say maybe your wife sucks at racing

[Want.FR-S]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

@2jz-gte4Life....This is an FT-86 forum last I checked. Which has no badge at this point in time. [1] I've owned Toyota's as well and have every right to voice an opinion on a public forum. You don't like it, don't read and respond.....pretty straight forward. And wasn't FR-S the naming scheme rumored if it was to be under Scion? [2] "Toyota FR-S"....that's news to me. [3]

Originally Posted by Snaps

Actually, as far as I've seen EVERYTHING has labeled this as a Toyota.... And the main peice of evidence? The Toyota badge on the front and back of the concept!

Point [1]:
Hmmm... if you scroll up of this page, you can find that this forum is ft86club//Toyota FT-86. Then, if you see the root node of this forum, you should find it as Toyota FR-S Forum/FT-86 Forum and Subaru 216a Forum|ft86club. The name of this thread is indeed Scion FT-86 FR-S. Since the name of this forum is clearly identified as Toyota FT-86 Forum (and subies), your point [1] is not correct. That car (FT-86) has a Toyota badge on it.

Point [2]:
Now, speaking of naming scheme of the name FR-S, the guess on this forum was that FR-S stands for Front Engine/Rear Drive - Sports , similar to the naming scheme of MR-S or MR-2, yet another car from Toyota. I would like to know your interpretation how this FR-S is related to the naming scheme of xB or tC from Scion.

Point [3]:
Now, if I remember correctly, it was Toyota who registered the FR-S trademark in both US/Canada back in June, 2010? And as stated, I believe it was the Toyota's logo on the both concept cars (FT-86 and FT-86G) as well. Therefore, it is expected that FT-86 (Future Toyota - 86 (successor of Toyota AE86!)) will be coming out as a Toyota FR-S. And this is indeed not news at this point in time.

Hopefully I have enlightened you, to some degree, of some information about this car and its association with Toyota. Yes, there is a rumor from Scion side of the Toyota group saying that FT-86 could be branded as Scion, and yes it is a possibility that Toyota may do this. However, it is just a rumor, as many rumors associated with this concept car (not released until 2013, anyone?). Since there is no official from Toyota who can confirm this statement, all we can assume is that someone in Scion was trying to make a noise using FT-86 to gain visibility.