BRZ vs S2000 vs Cayman S (my take)

[WolfpackS2k]

Alex, noodles has it right. That engine could suffer the same problems (on track). However for a street car it'd be all good. And to directly answer your question - it would bolt right in and just require some ECU software modifications.

[alex87f]

OK. Come to think of it, are there any cars that can actually withstand track abuse well? the twins are OK once they get an oil cooler, but it seems every model has its weakness.

Based on your use case, an Elise definitely seems like a good choice. They're expensive to buy, but their TCO might not be too bad. They don't seem to depreciate much, even when used on track.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by alex87f

OK. Come to think of it, are there any cars that can actually withstand track abuse well? the twins are OK once they get an oil cooler, but it seems every model has its weakness.

They're OK without an oil cooler...

[alex87f]

I'd disagree, especially on more punishing tracks. Lots of reports of oil going >250.
Even on the german Autobahn, at around 120-130mph the oil temp stabilizes around 240°F, which is a little high for my tastes. And that's in cool weather, with about as much airflow as the car can get.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by alex87f

I'd disagree, especially on more punishing tracks. Lots of reports of oil going >250.
Even on the german Autobahn, at around 120-130mph the oil temp stabilizes around 240°F, which is a little high for my tastes. And that's in cool weather, with about as much airflow as the car can get.

My oil gets to indicated 272F every time I go out on track. This is not a problem for good synthetic oil. I do run 30-weight, might go to 40 next year...

[serialk11r]

Evora/Exige V6 should work on the track out of the box, Frankenstein Motorworks runs the oil over 300F on the track with zero oil system modifications in his 2GR-FE swapped MR2s, and he's revving it to 7200rpm. No engine problems at all over thousands of races.

>2009 MY Porsches should be fine, they have quad scavenge pumps (instead of the double scavenge pump setup in the M96 and M97). IIRC they might not pump enough oil if you're pulling 1.5g but not many people have cars set up to do that.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Z06 and Z51 Corvettes do just fine on the track as well.

Not totally sure about BMW M cars but the S54, S65, and S85 all have scavenge pumps, which suggests a pretty robust design for high gs.

Miata owners all say their cars are very reliable on the track too, though I'm not sure at what point they need a modified oil pan. I imagine with stock aero you wouldn't be able to get enough grip to do that.

[alex87f]

Well an NC, barring some issues with the 6-spd, are pretty much bulletproof and make for great track tools. They're cheap to run, too, but at the end of the day, are several "rungs" below a Cayman S. Whether that's a good or a bad thing is a matter of perspective!

[WolfpackS2k]

The huge annoyance/issue with Porsche engines is that when/if they fail, they cost so much more to fix than comparable cars. And yes, I've always known this.

For on track, a big problem (apparently) with the M97 is that in long high G turns oil gets trapped in the heads.

[ninjan00dles]

Nearly all cars require track prepping, the issue with the 987.1 it is widely accepted that you need the following to be track OK:

-Baffled oil sump ($900)
-987 Motorsport AOS ($1800)

And then it's recommended you get:
-Third Radiator Kit ($400)
-Power steering cooler, or underpulley ($200-$850)
-Special Joe Gibbs Track Oil to prevent aeration in the heads (and drain back to street fill after your track day) [$150 / fill]
-Accumsump (in extreme cases, Rcomps)

And then better yet with all of this, it is still recommended you don't bounce off of redline because you will stretch the rod bolts.

And then you still have no guarantee that your engine won't still blow. And if your engine blows it's 20k for a rebuild.

987.1 is a great street car, would not advise for track use. There is a reason why they are much more affordable than 987.2 and up.

[Jordanwolf]

Originally Posted by ninjan00dles

Nearly all cars require track prepping...

Tell that to any enthusiast board.

"This car was marketed as a track ready car"

[Ernest72]

I never understand why enthusiasts think any production car will be reliable long term if tracked. I mean anyone who has watched a race or been to a race can see even well designed race cars specifically engineered for a specific racing fail all the time. It’s the whole point of racing, pushing the limits of machine and man. So if you fell for the track ready marketing you were only fooling yourself.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by alex87f

I'd disagree, especially on more punishing tracks. Lots of reports of oil going >250.
Even on the german Autobahn, at around 120-130mph the oil temp stabilizes around 240°F, which is a little high for my tastes. And that's in cool weather, with about as much airflow as the car can get.

Temperature isn't the issues, so an oil cooler isn't the solution.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I never understand why enthusiasts think any production car will be reliable long term if tracked. I mean anyone who has watched a race or been to a race can see even well designed race cars specifically engineered for a specific racing fail all the time. It’s the whole point of racing, pushing the limits of machine and man. So if you fell for the track ready marketing you were only fooling yourself.

Plenty of modern cars *are* long-term reliable when tracked casually. Most are built with much greater margins than pure race cars.

I'm at 18 track days on the BRZ and 49k miles. So far so good...

32 track days on my S2000 and the only issues I had were more frequent brake rotor and every-other-year rear wheel bearing replacements. Sold it with 240k+ on the clock and it was still running fine...

My dear old 3.1 liter 255rwhp 240Z, put upwards of 100 track days on that car. I did have to replace clutch a few times, transmission twice, had to replace a piston once due to loose carb attach nuts leading to lean condition and holed piston, and had to rebuild once due to running low on oil (without a baffled pan). But it was fairly modded and making WAY more power than any stock S30... And the engine issues were due to crew-chief (me) negligence...

The 996/997.1/986/987.1 Porsches, though, not so track-reliable unfortunately

The idea that "any production car" will have reliability issues if tracked is a false equivalence.

[TommyW]

Was at Big Willow and a guy with a “track ready” Mustang had no brakes in T1. Fluid wasn’t track ready.