Random thoughts thread

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by jawn

LOL. I've actually always wanted to do a super legit track/street build... that for some odd reason has underglow.

It would give me the ability to troll both sides of the crowd in REAL LIFE.

pink underglow. You have to do it now

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I heard that oo... but here's the the thing, is it test proven or it's scientific theory?

With any alloy materials the finished product is the finished product. If you start messing with higher temperatures on alloys you always run the risk of changing the metallurgy of that product. This does not mean for one second that you will change it but you have introduced an element of risk. The higher temperature you go the higher risk you take. All metals are very susceptible to heat but aluminum alloys can be very sensitive and just a couple of degrees off can change a nice strong alloy to sponge toffee. Although powder coating would not normally be expected to take you even close to that line as jawn pointed out a minor screw up can destroy your rims in any one of many different ways.
That which is forged in fire can be destroyed by fire.


Now all that said. We all know powder coating is done all the time without issues so you just have to decide if the level of risk is acceptable to you.


http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...OT-recommended

[jawn]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I heard that oo... but here's the the thing, is it test proven or it's scientific theory?

Powdercoating is supposed to be done at around 400F for like 10 minutes. Aluminum after heat treating is aged at around 350-400F, and one could theoretically over-age the metal and begin the annealing process.

I've seen in legit technical references that 6061-T6 aluminum should not be held at temperatures above 400F for more than 30 minutes (or you'll be reducing the strength by over 5%). This was in a civil engineering reference, since 6061-T6 is often used in building construction. 6061-T6 is also commonly used in forged wheels. How much loss of strength are you willing to concede? Do I have the actual Brinell hardness test results? No, but we stand on the shoulders of giants, so we don't make the mistakes of the past.

tl;dr: aluminum industry experts say don't do 400F for more than 30 minutes. Powder coat requires 10 minutes. Watch your oven, yo.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

With any alloy materials the finished product is the finished product. If you start messing with higher temperatures on alloys you always run the risk of changing the metallurgy of that product. This does not mean for one second that you will change it but you have introduced an element of risk. The higher temperature you go the higher risk you take. All metals are very susceptible to heat but aluminum alloys can be very sensitive and just a couple of degrees off can change a nice strong alloy to sponge toffee. Although powder coating would not normally be expected to take you even close to that line as jawn pointed out a minor screw up can destroy your rims in any one of many different ways.
That which is forged in fire can be destroyed by fire.


Now all that said. We all know powder coating is done all the time without issues so you just have to decide if the level of risk is acceptable to you.


http://www.ephatch.com/forum/showthr...OT-recommended

Originally Posted by jawn

Powdercoating is supposed to be done at around 400F for like 10 minutes. Aluminum after heat treating is aged at around 350-400F, and one could theoretically over-age the metal and begin the annealing process.

I've seen in legit technical references that 6061-T6 aluminum should not be held at temperatures above 400F for more than 30 minutes (or you'll be reducing the strength by over 5%). This was in a civil engineering reference, since 6061-T6 is often used in building construction. 6061-T6 is also commonly used in forged wheels. How much loss of strength are you willing to concede? Do I have the actual Brinell hardness test results? No, but we stand on the shoulders of giants, so we don't make the mistakes of the past.

tl;dr: aluminum industry experts say don't do 400F for more than 30 minutes. Powder coat requires 10 minutes. Watch your oven, yo.

I like jawn's explanation more than Tcoat lol

[jawn]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I like jawn's explanation more than Tcoat lol

In actuality, I'd almost always recommend just getting wheels painted professionally. OEMs do it. Just make sure there's enough clear coat on it.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by jawn

LOL. I've actually always wanted to do a super legit track/street build... that for some odd reason has underglow.

It would give me the ability to troll both sides of the crowd in REAL LIFE.

I approve this message.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by jawn

In actuality, I'd almost always recommend just getting wheels painted professionally. OEMs do it. Just make sure there's enough clear coat on it.

TBH, I've never powdercoated my wheels. Always get the color want... if I ever have extra wheels that I want to powdercoated, I'll make sure to get it done by pro!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I like jawn's explanation more than Tcoat lol

Ah but see there is the twist. There is no such thing as an "aluminum" rim. There are aluminum alloy rims. Since all alloys are not created equal there is no absolute number or time that can be applied across the board as "safe".
I 100% agree that 400 degrees for 10 or so minutes is probably safe as a rule of thumb but what happens if your particular rim's alloy should only be heated to 380 for 5? You also need to consider the style and design of the rim. A heavier outer with thin inner spokes is going to have to heat longer to get it to an even temperature. This means the thin spokes can be exposed to a higher internal temperature longer that the outer rim. This is a big issued if using a gas fired oven but can be migrated a bit if they are heated in an induction system that heats from the outside in.
I repeat, it is all a matter of risk management and what each individual considers acceptable risk.


Powder/wet coating, heat treating and high speed machining (creating heat) in OEM parts manufacturing are all things I have worked with for the last 28 years and although I am certainly no expert I have picked up a thing or two along the way.

[dem00n]

You know it's starting to become nice outside when you hear the roar of accelerating bikes echoing at the local highway.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ah but see there is the twist. There is no such thing as an "aluminum" rim. There are aluminum alloy rims. Since all alloys are not created equal there is no absolute number or time that can be applied across the board as "safe".
I 100% agree that 400 degrees for 10 or so minutes is probably safe as a rule of thumb but what happens if your particular rim's alloy should only be heated to 380 for 5? You also need to consider the style and design of the rim. A heavier outer with thin inner spokes is going to have to heat longer to get it to an even temperature. This means the thin spokes can be exposed to a higher internal temperature longer that the outer rim. This is a big issued if using a gas fired oven but can be migrated a bit if they are heated in an induction system that heats from the outside in.
I repeat, it is all a matter of risk management and what each individual considers acceptable risk.


Powder/wet coating, heat treating and high speed machining (creating heat) in OEM parts manufacturing are all things I have worked with for the last 28 years and although I am certainly no expert I have picked up a thing or two along the way.

It makes sense.

...but what I meant was, I like jawn's explanation cuz he had TLDR ver aftereard. lol

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by dem00n

You know it's starting to become nice outside when you hear the roar of accelerating bikes echoing at the local highway.

I-4s screaming to 13K, glorious.

[Nevermore]

Today went from being amazing to just sucking pretty damn fast. Here's the rundown:

- Impatiently waiting for tire shop to call.
- Stop by shop to check and pick up wheels mounted. (Super excited)
- Go to hardware store and buy a good jack, a new torque wrench, and an impact wrench (for removal only)
- Get home, jack is damaged.
- Take jack back to replace it.
- Get car washed. (also grab lunch)
- Jack car up, take off a wheel and set the new wheel on
- Lug nuts don't fit.

[jawn]

I drove my old Rav4 today. Felt like driving a Lexus in comparison. BOAT MODE.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Nevermore

Today went from being amazing to just sucking pretty damn fast. Here's the rundown:

- Impatiently waiting for tire shop to call.
- Stop by shop to check and pick up wheels mounted. (Super excited)
- Go to hardware store and buy a good jack, a new torque wrench, and an impact wrench (for removal only)
- Get home, jack is damaged.
- Take jack back to replace it.
- Get car washed. (also grab lunch)
- Jack car up, take off a wheel and set the new wheel on
- Lug nuts don't fit.

Sounds like about 80% of the car work I have ever done in my life!