SCCA Solo D Street discussion

[DCBeltwaymoveright]

Originally Posted by Kuro86

So literally as I posted this, a friend sent me this...

Very interesting, take it with a grain of salt. I think more data is needed, but I think this will end up a BS car.

Edited Part:
I'm told the Civic Type R got down to 57.9...

Subscribe to BTR. Shane is a really nice guy, smart, a good driver and willing to share his knowledge. His course walk through are like training videos. I met him at my first ever autocross experience in the Level 1 school this year in the DC Region. Black Top Racing is his channel.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

[DaWorstPlaya]

Originally Posted by justinco

Of course you will...because you love sex panther cologne.

Hey get back to your STX thread!

BTW can anyone tell me how the new Civic Type R is any different from the Cobalt SS currently in DS? Sorry I haven't been following the latest rumors and fast tracks.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DaWorstPlaya

BTW can any tell me how the new Civic Type R is any different from the Cobalt SS currently in DS? Sorry I haven't been following the latest rumors and fast tracks.

After two seconds of googling about 45hp and an LSD (standard vs optional).

[DaWorstPlaya]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

After two seconds of googling about 45hp and an LSD (standard vs optional).

Yea and don't forget about 300lbs heavier than the Cobalt SS Turbo. 8.5" wide rims compared to 8" wide for the Cobalt SS Turbo. Here is the real kicker tho:

295 lb-ft @ 2500-4500 rpm and 306HP @ 6500 rpm

This car could be right at the top of DS. At the same time I can see why they should 1st start with classing it in BS or CS. This whole classing based on popularity idea sucks because it becomes subjective opinion. And that opinion shapes people flocking to buy a certain car because someon on the rules committee feels like that car would be popular. It's a slippery slope. Classes should be based on perfomance potential, IMHO.

Honestly I think the SCCA screwed the pooch when they let the ND Miata into CS basically making that class spec ND Miata. IMHO, it's all because GRM and a certain someone sandbagged the year they brought that car to Nats for an "exhibition" in CS (but that's just my opinion).

Sorry I'll get off my soapbox.

[G_Ride]

There will be someone who is a pretty good driver nationally coming to some events Crows Landing at the end of September with the Civic Type R. This person and Mark Sroggs will be driving the Civic Type R and Mark's DS Camaro back to back to see how they compare to each other.

I think the turbo Camaro is an overdog in DS, but that might just be because it's Mark Scroggs behind the wheel. It'll be fun to see how things turn out!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DaWorstPlaya

Classes should be based on perfomance potential, IMHO.

I'm in full agreement, time will tell how fast it is. I'll take my benchracing hat off for once, no need to muck up this thread anymore with soapboxes about 'how things should be', any car in a class should have a decent shot at a win when fully prepared and driven well, no bullshit.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I'm in full agreement, time will tell how fast it is. I'll take my benchracing hat off for once, no need to muck up this thread anymore with soapboxes about 'how things should be', any car in a class should have a decent shot at a win when fully prepared and driven well, no bullshit.

That's what I've argued but I've been shut down on that argument multiple times with SEB members. I'm recruitment chief up here in the NWR-SCCA area and one of the things I hear a lot from new people is that they don't want to race where they have no reasonable shot at winning or measuring their progress. It's hard to get people into this sport when they find out that to win many of the classes they need to have "the car for the class".

I don't know about you guys but I don't like going into an event knowing that someone in another car gets a 1 or more second handicap on me just because we have two different cars. While I'm not at the level of the nationally prominent drivers yet I can say for certain that on a 50-60 second course that's insurmountable at the top echelons of this sport.

It's also ridiculous in that it fosters an environment where the people who want to be competitive need to sell their cars for different ones every 2-4 years in order to keep up with classing.

My ideal method for setting up equal competition for everyone is to go with a pyramid format of classing. You have as many street classes as you need to group makes/models together where they're all within about 1/2 a second or less of each other. You'll never be able to eliminate course/condition dependency so averaging all per-event results over several years would give you the best estimate of car performance. Think law of large numbers. Then your next tier up has slightly less classes and so on until you get to whatever your highest level class is (open?). Obviously things like karts and the mod cars are different and require their own special classes.

So what does this look like? 10-12 street classes, 5-6 street touring classes, 3-4 street prepared classes, 2 street modified classes, and 1-2 modified classes. Final tier being open (that's kind of XP, right?). Statistics tell us that the more you're able to modify a car the smaller the gap in performance becomes between other cars.

[DaWorstPlaya]

Makes complete sense. I would go one step futher and say get rid of *SP classes and add more SM classes.

Eg: 9 street classes, 7 ST* classes, 5 SM* classes. Leave the Mod and Prepared classes alone.

Make sure every Street class car has a progression from Street to ST then SM. Not like the hokey street to ST exclusion list like we have today. Done!

[Locust]

Originally Posted by DaWorstPlaya

Makes complete sense. I would go one step futher and say get rid of *SP classes and add more SM classes.

Eg: 9 street classes, 7 ST* classes, 5 SM* classes. Leave the Mod and Prepared classes alone.

Make sure every Street class car has a progression from Street to ST then SM. Not like the hokey street to ST exclusion list like we have today. Done!

Need more than 9 street classes. We actually have 10 now; people often forget to count Super Street and Super Street R.

[DaWorstPlaya]

Good point! I totally forgot about those classes. Out of affordability range, out of mind.

[Shark_Bait88]

So a CTR ran at a Chicago Region event yesterday. On OE tires he was only .577 (less than .1 raw, but dirty) off the 1st place DS finisher, Chris Dvorak, who is a strong DS trophy candidate at Nat's, has taken 1st in class at each event this year, and routinely a top 15 finisher in PAX in a region that routinely bring out 150+ drivers to each event.

I'll reserve judgement for after Nat's, but I'm guessing it's an overdog in DS.

[Locust]

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88

So a CTR ran at a Chicago Region event yesterday. On OE tires he was only .577 (less than .1 raw, but dirty) off the 1st place DS finisher, Chris Dvorak, who is a strong DS trophy candidate at Nat's, has taken 1st in class at each event this year, and routinely a top 15 finisher in PAX in a region that routinely bring out 150+ drivers to each event.

I'll reserve judgement for after Nat's, but I'm guessing it's an overdog in DS.

Well there won't be any in DS at nats, right?

I can see the argument now though... It's not an overdog because it's on par with the Camaro!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Locust

Well there won't be any in DS at nats, right?

No. Section 3.1

[APEXIT53]

I think it's a decent DS cat but also on the edge of it will be an over dog. The larger issue is price and availability.