Tracking with Forced Induction

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by HRTROB

Spent the afternoon working on the car. Pulled the bumper for the nth time to stuff some foam around the radiator. I reused the foam that was on the stock radiator and stuck it on the sides and bottom of the
I also reinstalled the flaps on the sides of the grille. I pulled these off because the driver side was making contact with my oil coole
If these do not help, then I guess the next step would be bigger fans and/or a vented hood

Just trim the pieces like so:

[mike the snake]

So, according to your data, the coolant temps are kept in check moreso by the fans than by air flowing through the front grill.

I suspect this is the case. If the fans turn on, coolant temps are kept in check.

On a front mount turbo setup, I think the fans should turn on VERY early, or simply run ALL the time, because if the fans are off during times of boost, then the radiant heat from the hot parts will melt, or at least overly bake anything around them. With the fans on the radiant heat will be blown away from the fans and radiator.

For track duty though, it is much more important to address the air exchange in the engine bay as well. This is where the skidplate, vented hood, fender vents, all come into play.

For street use, I agree, probably most would not need to go to any extra lengths for cooling other than having the fans coming on early.

More importantly for tracking is dealing with oil temps. Looking at data posted it seems coolant temps stay in check while oil temps steadily rise without an oil cooler.

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Default ECU tuning is 212F for fan activation. Some tuners automatically lower it in their tunes and dont advertise it.

As far as coolant temps, I have always had higher coolant temps even when the car was bone stock no mods. On the dyno saw up to 220F after a stock run, again bone stock. I dont know if some cars have more heat issues than others.

My car was always bouncing from 200F to 212F with the stock radiator in idle. Track was the same story. After the Koyo, same crap difference was recovery time was faster would go from 212F fan activation down to 195F and more slowly back up. After Vortech was always in the 205-212F during slow speed and idle. Track time it was 208F-215F.

With fan speed at 200F is always 192-200F and oil is 10F cooler on track.
I have always had in dash tablet gauges installed long time ago before anyone was doing it on this car. Always have monitored the cars oil and coolant temps before and after mods for this reason.

Point is you have to set a goal and target temps. i cant and wont start cutting holes in bumper, skid plate adding vented hoods because I need a car that can also get heat into it quickly when the temps go below 50F half the year. If you are in a dry hot climate go for it. But if you can keep coolant temps at 200-210F and oil temps below 250F no need to do anything on a street car.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Default ECU tuning is 212F for fan activation. Some tuners automatically lower it in their tunes and dont advertise it.

As far as coolant temps, I have always had higher coolant temps even when the car was bone stock no mods. On the dyno saw up to 220F after a stock run, again bone stock. I dont know if some cars have more heat issues than others.

My car was always bouncing from 200F to 212F with the stock radiator in idle. Track was the same story. After the Koyo, same crap difference was recovery time was faster would go from 212F fan activation down to 195F and more slowly back up. After Vortech was always in the 205-212F during slow speed and idle. Track time it was 208F-215F.

With fan speed at 200F is always 192-200F and oil is 10F cooler on track.
I have always had in dash tablet gauges installed long time ago before anyone was doing it on this car. Always have monitored the cars oil and coolant temps before and after mods for this reason.

Point is you have to set a goal and target temps. i cant and wont start cutting holes in bumper, skid plate adding vented hoods because I need a car that can also get heat into it quickly when the temps go below 50F half the year. If you are in a dry hot climate go for it. But if you can keep coolant temps at 200-210F and oil temps below 250F no need to do anything on a street car.

I've asked my tuner (Mike from moto-east) to lower it about 7-8 degrees so let's see if it helps.. I personally don't want to get CF hood and pay $700 for something that will be only beneficial at track days as you mentioned I also want to keep my car as DD and here in PNW we also see the temps go down below 50F quite often during the winter but being FI and running an OEM oil cooler heating up the engine shouldn't be a big deal

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Mike, I am a little confused about the fans activation temps I believe @Dezoris mentioned one of this earlier posts that the fan activation temps are 212F and he lowered it to 200F to delay the heat rise of the coolant temps.. so I asked my tuner to lower it, am I missing something?

Our logs show the fan turning on at 195F, and turning off at 185F. Perhaps we're reading different coolant sensors; this was on a stock car, and we haven't changed it on any of our tunes.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Our logs show the fan turning on at 195F, and turning off at 185F. Perhaps we're reading different coolant sensors; this was on a stock car, and we haven't changed it on any of our tunes.

Interesting, I wonder where you guys have been reading from? what software/device did you guys use to log?

[xwd]

There are two ECT tables for the radiator fan control in the stock map, along with a fan control table based on speed. I'm not sure where the two maps come into play but the lowest value in any map is 92c which is 197F. 100 is the highest value in one of the maps so my guess is it might be the temp the fans turn on full speed which is 212F.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Our logs show the fan turning on at 195F, and turning off at 185F. Perhaps we're reading different coolant sensors; this was on a stock car, and we haven't changed it on any of our tunes.

I never see below 195F on my car. Street or track.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

I never see below 195F on my car. Street or track.

Street driving, we're usually sitting at around 170-175F.

There are two coolant sensors on the car.

[kanundrum]

Getting a lot of Lift Off Oversteer lately, any tips? Current setup is Front Sway (22mm) with KW Club Sports on Soft Setting and Z2's 255 Setup All Around. I did try disconnecting the rear sway and that did help a little. Do I just need to learn how to counter more confidently?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by kanundrum

Getting a lot of Lift Off Oversteer lately, any tips? Current setup is Front Sway (22mm) with KW Club Sports on Soft Setting and Z2's 255 Setup All Around. I did try disconnecting the rear sway and that did help a little. Do I just need to learn how to counter more confidently?

Why are you lifting mid corner?

[kanundrum]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Why are you lifting mid corner?

It starts to under steer I suppose, here is a good example of what is happening

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghxIto6sZt4&feature=player_detailpage#t=26 4"]GRIPFEST NCCAR Turbo FRS (May 2014) - YouTube[/ame]

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by kanundrum

It starts to under steer I suppose, here is a good example of what is happening

Well, first things first.

Your steering wheels control the front tires, the gas pedal controls the rear tires.

If you're coasting through a corner, you're only controlling half of your car. You got power oversteer there, after understeering from coasting through the corner. Balance the car with the throttle.

Your suspension setup may or may not be prone to understeer period, while you just simply overpower the rear tires with sheer power, causing the oversteer. I can't diagnose without more information

[HRTROB]

Originally Posted by dwx

There are two ECT tables for the radiator fan control in the stock map, along with a fan control table based on speed. I'm not sure where the two maps come into play but the lowest value in any map is 92c which is 197F. 100 is the highest value in one of the maps so my guess is it might be the temp the fans turn on full speed which is 212F.

I observed this too. There are times when the fans will turn on at 92C and turn off at 88C, and times that they turn on when coolant temp reaches 96C (had my tuner lower it from 100C) then turn off when it goes down to 92C.

[HRTROB]

Originally Posted by dwx

Sounds like you and HRTROB need to get together, being in the same place and all...

Yep we were at the track this weekend. We both did three laps together, I reached 111C coolant temp while @Bl1tzkr1eg reached 100C. Mine was taken from the OBD port while he got his data from his gauge with the water temp sensor hooked up to the upper radiator hose.

@bli1tzkr1eg has an aftermarket grille which has a bigger opening which could explain the lower coolant temp. We have the same setup, Vortech SC, Koyorad and 6MT