Anybody here getting that greasy "$27k" feeling?

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by 82mm 4g63

Of course it's still a Toyota, but it isn't a Toyota. When you buy a Lexus you're buying a Toyota, but does it cost the same as a Toyota? No. Same idea only reversed. When you buy a Scion you're still buying a Toyota, but it won't (and shouldn't) draw the same price tag that the exact same car with a Toyota emblem would.

In other countries Lexus cars are now only Lexus cars including Japan. I consider a cars real name by its country of origin. ex: my car is a Honda Integra because Acura doesn't exist in Japan.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

The Celica was built on a new chassis designed and manufactured exclusively for itself and new engines (1ZZ-FE and a 2ZZ-GE higher compression engine with Lift technology, tuned by Yamaha). Its launch price in '99 reflected those costs which stuck for its entire production. The tC was built on a pre-existing chassis used by the Avensis and powered by a pre-existing 2AZ-FE Camry engine (and I believe the current gen still "borrows" major components from Toyotas). Its launch price in '04 reflected those savings. Also, you can't compare their pricing since the tC was the generational successor to the Celica. It's like comparing MkIII to MkIV Supra prices. Or the '05 MkI tC $16,545 price to the '11 MkII tC $18,275 price.

The FR-S is a special case. It is splitting costs of chassis and powertrain with Subaru. But globally, the FR-S will be a Toyota. An FT-86 sold in Japan equipped with X options should cost the same as a Scion FR-S with the same X equipment +/- things beyond their control like import fees, etc. So there should be a slight cost difference but not arbitrarily based on branding.

Hence why I was comparing pricing for the last year of the last generation for the Celica.

Options are also a method of pricing as they tend to be marked up compared to 3party products. If Scion offers a cheaper base model by reducing options that still means the Scion is cheaper. If you add all of the options of a Toyota variant you might as well get the Toyota version as the price is going to be similar after the markups for install etc. I believe this was already mentioned before. It's not like it is cheaper to build a Scion vs a Toyota.

[Aki]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

An FT-86 sold in Japan equipped with X options should cost the same as a Scion FR-S with the same X equipment +/- things beyond their control like import fees, etc. So there should be a slight cost difference but not arbitrarily based on branding.

I think the branding/positioning can play a big part in price between the Scion FR-S and Toyota FT-86. Now I don't think they'd arbitrarily raise the price, but depending on branding they could put a lot more features in the base model, which will drive up the price.

Hypothetically, say Scion FR-S is positioned as a full-featured sports coupe; they'd dump everything but the kitchen sink in there--Bluetooth, 6-speaker audio system, etc etc. You'd see a higher price than if it were positioned as a bareboned, enthusiast-centric car. I think they'd be stupid to do so, but we'll see. As long as the Scion is same with intl models in terms of price and features I'll be happy.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by Allch Chcar

Hence why I was comparing pricing for the last year of the last generation for the Celica.

Options are also a method of pricing as they tend to be marked up compared to 3party products. If Scion offers a cheaper base model by reducing options that still means the Scion is cheaper. If you add all of the options of a Toyota variant you might as well get the Toyota version as the price is going to be similar after the markups for install etc. I believe this was already mentioned before. It's not like it is cheaper to build a Scion vs a Toyota.

You can't ignore cost of the Celica at launch because cost in its final year was derived from its cost at launch, which was a lot. It was R&D'd from scratch with a lot going into its chassis, balance, engine, and concept releases (like we're seeing with the FR-S). The tC plopped right into production using a pre-existing chassis and drivetrain; R&D savings shaved thousands off its sticker.

True, FR-S standard equipment (which may be optional overseas) will dictate its sticker price. But I believe Toyota/Scion will be very smart/careful in selecting what comes standard so as not to place the FR-S too far out of reach when it sits next to its smaller Scion siblings.

[Levi]

Now I'am getting that greasy "€30K" feeling!

[iff2mastamatt]

Hmm, I wonder if my first prediction of $26,000 2600 lbs will hold true...

[chate]

The more I see it, the more I feel like anything over 22k for this car is too much considering the amount of money I will want (need?) to spend on it. The early dealer markup is fine, its supply and demand, but if the MSRP is higher than 22k, I think many people will simply take their money elsewhere.

Sigh, first we waited and waited for the car...now we wait and wait for the price...

[Sabastian]

Originally Posted by chate

The more I see it, the more I feel like anything over 22k for this car is too much considering the amount of money I will want (need?) to spend on it. The early dealer markup is fine, its supply and demand, but if the MSRP is higher than 22k, I think many people will simply take their money elsewhere.

Sigh, first we waited and waited for the car...now we wait and wait for the price...

There is pretty much no way this car will come in under $22k. More power will always be available elsewhere for less money because the 86 car was never designed to be another neo-muscle car.

[Longhorn248]

Originally Posted by Sabastian

There is pretty much no way this car will come in under $22k. More power will always be available elsewhere for less money because the 86 car was never designed to be another neo-muscle car.

+1, No way the car is under $22k.

[chate]

Part of the point of this thing was supposed to be low price, if the stuff about "starting salary of a college graduate" stuff is true (32k per the article), i'll take my money elsewhere...its just not a good "value" any more...after you throw some rims (the most popular mod everyone on here wants) and tires plus a few aesthetic upgrades you're really blowing between 35 and 40k on a 200hp car...god i cant wait till Wednesday!!!

[Rabble]

32k is way too expensive for this car.

[random]

Originally Posted by chate

The more I see it, the more I feel like anything over 22k for this car is too much considering the amount of money I will want (need?) to spend on it. The early dealer markup is fine, its supply and demand, but if the MSRP is higher than 22k, I think many people will simply take their money elsewhere.

Sigh, first we waited and waited for the car...now we wait and wait for the price...

I highly doubt the FR-S will be 22k or less. Look at roughly what it's competing against (in the realm of compact, 2-door cars, with sporting intentions). Some approximate MSRP starting prices in the U.S.:

• Mazda Miata -- $23k
• Honda Civic Si -- $22k
• Honda CR-Z -- $19k or $20k
• VW GTI -- $23k or $24k
• VW Beetle Turbo -- $23k or $24k
• Mini Cooper -- $20k
• Mini Cooper S -- $24k
• Scion tC -- $19k

These are all the bare bones version of each model. Chances are, the FR-S will start at no less than $22k.

[Guff]

Impreza WRX is $26k, so assuming Subaru and Toyota want to keep it at fairly similar price points, and that Subaru doesn't want to invade into it's already established market, I say $24k base. And I think that many forum members will be happy with that.


But again, gotta wait until they announce it (NAIAS!!! Maybe?)

[ryude]

Originally Posted by Guff

Impreza WRX is $26k, so assuming Subaru and Toyota want to keep it at fairly similar price points, and that Subaru doesn't want to invade into it's already established market, I say $24k base. And I think that many forum members will be happy with that.


But again, gotta wait until they announce it (NAIAS!!! Maybe?)

Good point.

Fast, Reliable, Cheap. Pick 2.