Engine idle chirping (cricket) noise poll.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by Thunderchicken

That would be incorrect because the oils surround the ethanol molecules and prevent the ethanol the ability to attract H2O molecules. The oil in the fuel plus the 2T oil would lubricate the HPFP and stop the excess rubbing of the internal parts.

I see. So the extra lubrication is enough to overwhelm that process.
Thought I said that before?

It certainly seems that ethanol could be the culprit.
The problem should then be worse in damp humid conditions than in dry desert areas.
What was it that you add to fuel to keep water dispersed and held in suspension? Just looked it up, acetone.
Do you think that might solve any ethanol hygroscopic problems or would it still come out of suspension under pressure?

[Thunderchicken]

Originally Posted by sierra

I see. So the extra lubrication is enough to overwhelm that process.
Thought I said that before?

It certainly seems that ethanol could be the culprit.
The problem should then be worse in damp humid conditions than in dry desert areas.
What was it that you add to fuel to keep water dispersed and held in suspension? Just looked it up, acetone.
Do you think that might solve any ethanol hygroscopic problems or would it still come out of suspension under pressure?

acetone is very bad to any fuel system because it's a drying agent and dries out plastics and gaskets. one would be better off using a fuel stabilizer because it helps the ethanol from attracting H2O, that is what Marine folk do.

No, the oil gets a positive bond on the ethanol and surrounds it which would prevent any moisture even under higher pressures. Basically the oil prevents the H2O from puddling and not collecting.

[sierra]

It would seem that the refineries are at fault for not adding fuel stabiliser along with the ethanol to combat the inherent problems it has.
If you had an 86 would you add stabiliser or 2T to your car.
Would you leave it alone and let it self destruct under warranty?
Will Toyota/Subaru not honour warranty claims, instead referring claims to the fuel companies?

[Allch Chcar]

I'm surprised that the 2-stroke is helping. Can we get this thread stickied?

[Thunderchicken]

Originally Posted by sierra

It would seem that the refineries are at fault for not adding fuel stabiliser along with the ethanol to combat the inherent problems it has.
If you had an 86 would you add stabiliser or 2T to your car.
Would you leave it alone and let it self destruct under warranty?
Will Toyota/Subaru not honour warranty claims, instead referring claims to the fuel companies?

Refineries use to add stabilizers. Lead is a fuel stabilizer, when they went from lead the used something else that was very bad for us humans and easily leached in to the ground table. then they decided to go to ethanol.

The downside to ethanol is that is attracts H2O and isn't very energy efficient.

[BLL]

Originally Posted by excited86

which octane level?

91.
Shell V-Power premium gasoline in Canada does not contain ethanol

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by sierra

It would seem that the refineries are at fault for not adding fuel stabiliser along with the ethanol to combat the inherent problems it has.
If you had an 86 would you add stabiliser or 2T to your car.
Would you leave it alone and let it self destruct under warranty?
Will Toyota/Subaru not honour warranty claims, instead referring claims to the fuel companies?

There's 0 evidence this noise is harmful to the engine. It's just a noise, not sure how you go from noise to self-destruct.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

There's 0 evidence this noise is harmful to the engine. It's just a noise, not sure how you go from noise to self-destruct.

My background is in aircraft engines, so a reasonable engineering ability.
Any noise caused by a lack of lubrication means high friction and the breaking down of the surfaces that are in contact. That means material will be lost, clearances will increase and the lost material will pollute the pump and the fuel.

Toyota/Subaru says it's not a problem because that suits them currently.
It clearly is a problem and the consequences could be extensive.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Thunderchicken

Refineries use to add stabilizers. Lead is a fuel stabilizer, when they went from lead the used something else that was very bad for us humans and easily leached in to the ground table. then they decided to go to ethanol.

The downside to ethanol is that is attracts H2O and isn't very energy efficient.

You're thinking of MTBE. Which was originally touted to meet the EPA's oxygenate requirement but was later replaced by Ethanol. Lead and MTBE are considered toxic while Ethanol isn't.

Somebody said sulfur was the missing lubricant. Everyone knows that sulfuric acid is highly corrosive stuff so I'd bet it was something else bonded to sulfur and not necessarily sulfur that provided lubrication. exactly since I'm not a chemist. I searched for sulfur as a lubricant and I came up with a few diesel related rumors/myths what have you.

And it's energy density not energy efficiency, very big difference. For example MPG != energy efficiency. That would be fuel economy.

[Indestruct]

Just my luck I'm at the dealership and I can't replicate the chirp. It rained last night and is too cool for the noise to get Loud.

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by sierra

My background is in aircraft engines, so a reasonable engineering ability.
Any noise caused by a lack of lubrication means high friction and the breaking down of the surfaces that are in contact. That means material will be lost, clearances will increase and the lost material will pollute the pump and the fuel.

Toyota/Subaru says it's not a problem because that suits them currently.
It clearly is a problem and the consequences could be extensive.

I think it was a forum member who claimed it was lack of lubrication, wasn't it? Adding extra lube into the fuel may resolve the situation, but that's still not definitive proof that there was even anything wrong.

I don't mean any offense, but aircraft engines != car engines.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

I think it was a forum member who claimed it was lack of lubrication, wasn't it? Adding extra lube into the fuel may resolve the situation, but that's still not definitive proof that there was even anything wrong.

I don't mean any offense, but aircraft engines != car engines.

Yes it was a forum member and the post was the first one to fit the circumstances, to make sense. That adding 2T instantly stops the noise was a reasonable confirmation.
If they don't have the chirping in Japan but the same cars in the US make the noise surely that means there's something wrong?

I worked[retired now] on both piston and gas turbine[jet] engines and the fuel systems were far more complex than a car. Now the car fuel systems with much higher pressures are also getting more complicated.
The differences are less than you might imagine. I've also worked on cars, my own, as an employee and lastly in my own company.

My posts here are purely based on my interest in the 86 since I have one on order, to enjoy while I can still get a buzz from driving something that's fun instead of practical and boring.

[Chewie4299]

Originally Posted by sierra

Yes it was a forum member and the post was the first one to fit the circumstances, to make sense. That adding 2T instantly stops the noise was a reasonable confirmation.
If they don't have the chirping in Japan but the same cars in the US make the noise surely that means there's something wrong?

I worked[retired now] on both piston and gas turbine[jet] engines and the fuel systems were far more complex than a car. Now the car fuel systems with much higher pressures are also getting more complicated.
The differences are less than you might imagine. I've also worked on cars, my own, as an employee and lastly in my own company.

My posts here are purely based on my interest in the 86 since I have one on order, to enjoy while I can still get a buzz from driving something that's fun instead of practical and boring.

Does the gasoline in Australia have ethanol in it? I can't remember whether or not any Australian owners have complained of this issue and this thread is getting too big to pinpoint one.

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by sierra

Yes it was a forum member and the post was the first one to fit the circumstances, to make sense. That adding 2T instantly stops the noise was a reasonable confirmation.
If they don't have the chirping in Japan but the same cars in the US make the noise surely that means there's something wrong?

I worked[retired now] on both piston and gas turbine[jet] engines and the fuel systems were far more complex than a car. Now the car fuel systems with much higher pressures are also getting more complicated.
The differences are less than you might imagine. I've also worked on cars, my own, as an employee and lastly in my own company.

My posts here are purely based on my interest in the 86 since I have one on order, to enjoy while I can still get a buzz from driving something that's fun instead of practical and boring.

understood. Where is the proof they aren't getting the same noise in Japan? I don't recall anything other than a sideways comment on it.