Subaru Coupe (version of FR-S/FT-86) Spotted Inside and Out! + New Interior Pic

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by blur

Virtually all cars today are boring econoboxes. Doesn't mean that sport cars will become "very rare".

Well said.

We have got the same people arguing about how this cars needs emotion, connectedness, and feel but then at the same time they are looking ahead to autotragic gear boxes.

[Calais]

Originally Posted by madfast

audi and bmw also use wheel mounted paddles. maybe its a german thing? however the "german" lambos use column mounted paddles...

also the new mclaren mp4-12c is the only exotic off the top of my head that uses wheel mounted paddles vs column mounted. but also remember that they have a new rocker style paddle system where you can both upshift and downshift with the same paddle...

porsche brought that in at the end of last year: pull back to shift up and push forwardto shift down

[madfast]

Originally Posted by celicajim

Circuit Driving Instructors usually tell you to keep your hands on the wheel for maximum feel of where and what the front wheels are doing, so with that in mind you want the paddles to be on the wheel so you don't have to lift a hand off the wheel.

yes, however not all cars allow you to do this. cars with super quick steering ratios will allow you to do this, you may not need to turn the wheel much on a track. even on hairpins, you can probably get away with crossing your arms or slightly shuffle them.

but on other cars with slow steering, and 3+ turns lock-to-lock you simply have to turn the wheel more, and thats where you have to shuffle your hands. in this scenario, wheel mounted paddles are a stupid idea simply because their relative positions change with the wheel... if the car is a sportscar and you never have to move your hands, sure wheel mounted works best, but not all cars are like that...

ferrari and most exotics use column mounted paddles. i'd follow their lead...

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Here's my take: Your hands are on the wheel, not on the column, so I don't see why you would you want the paddles where your hands aren't.

Where are the paddles on a Formula1 steering wheel? Case closed!

F1 drivers almost never turn the steering wheel more than a quarter turn nor do they ever take their hands of the wheel (I'm guessing) so paddles fixed to the steering wheel works fine.

But on street-driven cars, as you lift your hands off the steering wheel hand-over-hand to make a turn, you'll be fumbling for the downshift paddle wishing it were fixed to the column.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

F1 drivers almost never turn the steering wheel more than a quarter turn nor do they ever take their hands of the wheel (I'm guessing) so paddles fixed to the steering wheel works fine.

But on street-driven cars, as you lift your hands off the steering wheel hand-over-hand to make a turn, you'll be fumbling for the downshift paddle wishing it were fixed to the column.

this guy knows what I was talking about. paddle shifter on steering wheel is uncomfortable for a street car.

[bofa]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

F1 drivers almost never turn the steering wheel more than a quarter turn nor do they ever take their hands of the wheel (I'm guessing) so paddles fixed to the steering wheel works fine.

But on street-driven cars, as you lift your hands off the steering wheel hand-over-hand to make a turn, you'll be fumbling for the downshift paddle wishing it were fixed to the column.

How much shifting are you doing during half steering wheel (or more) turns? I guess I'm used to shifting as I enter the turns and as maybe I exit depending on the where I'm at in the power band.

[PAImportTuner]

Something ya'll are forgetting is. Street cars with paddle shifters STILL have the center console shifter. They are not full paddle setup, you can still use either one.

If you track and autocross like me, you'll understand it does not matter if they put it on the steering column or wheel. You do your shifting before diving in and during exiting tight corners, long sweepers will still allow you to shift regardless of location. And you can always get paddle extenders.

[iff2mastamatt]

I can't really tell which brand those seats are, but they look too low to be comfortable.

[madfast]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Something ya'll are forgetting is. Street cars with paddle shifters STILL have the center console shifter. They are not full paddle setup, you can still use either one.

If you track and autocross like me, you'll understand it does not matter if they put it on the steering column or wheel. You do your shifting before diving in and during exiting tight corners, long sweepers will still allow you to shift regardless of location. And you can always get paddle extenders.

if you're going to use the console shifter exclusively, then why even have paddles? the point of the discussion is which paddle mount position is better. obviously you can still shift with the console shifter...

which brings me to my next point. most console shifters have their up/downshift positions reversed! it should be pull back to upshift, and push forward to downshift. that's how its done on a true sequential gearbox and that's how all console shifts should be. the push forward upshift that most cars have is based off of the old PRNDL or PRND321 sequence found in automatics, not based off of true sequential gearboxes.

off the top of my head, only suzuki, mazda, bmw, and mitsubishi's SST use the pull back upshift configuration...

[madfast]

Originally Posted by bofa

How much shifting are you doing during half steering wheel (or more) turns? I guess I'm used to shifting as I enter the turns and as maybe I exit depending on the where I'm at in the power band.

i'll give an example of why i like column mounted paddles.

im at a red light and have to make a turn once it goes green. im in manual mode. light turns green. i make the tight turn. now here's where i love my column mounted paddles. i can short shift mid turn or close to the end of it and keep the engine from revving too high, both saving fuel and not looking like an idiotic street racing ricer revving to 5k rpm on a low speed turn... since its a low speed tight turn, there is no way i can keep my hands on the wheel. i have to shuffle them. if the paddles were wheel mounted, i'd have no clue where they were while turning. i'd have to shift super early or let the engine rev and shift later. obviously not a huge problem, but every time this happens, im reminded about how much better column mounted paddles are than wheel mounted...

[Sabastian]

Originally Posted by madfast

i'll give an example of why i like column mounted paddles.

im at a red light and have to make a turn once it goes green. im in manual mode. light turns green. i make the tight turn. now here's where i love my column mounted paddles. i can short shift mid turn or close to the end of it and keep the engine from revving too high, both saving fuel and not looking like an idiotic street racing ricer revving to 5k rpm on a low speed turn... since its a low speed tight turn, there is no way i can keep my hands on the wheel. i have to shuffle them. if the paddles were wheel mounted, i'd have no clue where they were while turning. i'd have to shift super early or let the engine rev and shift later. obviously not a huge problem, but every time this happens, im reminded about how much better column mounted paddles are than wheel mounted...

Well said, sir. I had that exact problem the first time I drove a GTI with DSG. It wasn't the end of the world, but it was kind of annoying. To add to your point, column-mounted paddles can also be bigger since they aren't swinging around with the wheel.

Example:


vs.




All that said, a true manual solves the problem completely.

[madfast]

porsche's paddles are both wheel mounted and huge:

https://porschebahn.wordpress.com/20...addle-shifter/

i actually think they made them that way to LOOK like its column mounted a la ferrari/lambo... food for thought...

[Dark]

What I don't like about wheel mounted paddle is, when I steering to much, I'm confused which is the up and down shifter. Sometimes you have to shift when you turn, not only when steering is on the neutral position.
Like madfast said, you will look like an idiot revving 5K on the street.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by madfast

i'll give an example of why i like column mounted paddles.

im at a red light and have to make a turn once it goes green. im in manual mode. light turns green. i make the tight turn. now here's where i love my column mounted paddles. i can short shift mid turn or close to the end of it and keep the engine from revving too high, both saving fuel and not looking like an idiotic street racing ricer revving to 5k rpm on a low speed turn... since its a low speed tight turn, there is no way i can keep my hands on the wheel. i have to shuffle them. if the paddles were wheel mounted, i'd have no clue where they were while turning. i'd have to shift super early or let the engine rev and shift later. obviously not a huge problem, but every time this happens, im reminded about how much better column mounted paddles are than wheel mounted...

Here's better way to save fuel and don't look like an idiotic street racing ricer, use keep it automatic instead of using the paddle. Was that hard to do?