Failure After J02 Recall - Discussion Threads

[maslin]

Originally Posted by ORrooster

I'll give you 20:1 odds that more of those bolts are being put in with a cordless impact tool vs an accurate torque wrench for ~ 7 lb.ft.

10:1 more 'techs' these days own a cordless impact and no torque wrench.

Guaranteed. The young guys here make fun of my "weak" M12 1/4" impact with the small batteries. While they laugh about breaking bolts off with 18v Dewalt brushless monsters made for building houses

We have trans pan and engine cover bolts made of aluminum, they torque to like 5nm, as in not a lot. I can't count how many times I've had to help those guys back out a broken bolt with a pick.

It's a different mindset with these younger guys. They find humor in mistakes, laughing when a screw driver goes though a $1000 radiator. We all just shake our heads and try to keep the shop in one piece.

I would assume a Toyota shop is primarily younger guys. We only have 2 to contend with.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by maslin

Guaranteed. The young guys here make fun of my "weak" M12 1/4" impact with the small batteries. While they laugh about breaking bolts off with 18v Dewalt brushless monsters made for building houses

We have trans pan and engine cover bolts made of aluminum, they torque to like 5nm, as in not a lot. I can't count how many times I've had to help those guys back out a broken bolt with a pick.

It's a different mindset with these younger guys. They find humor in mistakes, laughing when a screw driver goes though a $1000 radiator. We all just shake our heads and try to keep the shop in one piece.

I would assume a Toyota shop is primarily younger guys. We only have 2 to content with.

My Toyota shop is mostly older guys. Canada has a much stricter training and licensing program for techs though so most of the younger guys are a lot more careful. You do not want to lose your apprenticeship and several thousand dollars you have invested in schooling fees because you put a screwdriver through one too many rads.

[maslin]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

My Toyota shop is mostly older guys. Canada has a much stricter training and licensing program for techs though so most of the younger guys are a lot more careful. You do not want to lose your apprenticeship and several thousand dollars you have invested in schooling fees because you put a screwdriver through one too many rads.

The US has zero regulation. No required schooling, training, certification, documents, nothing. A degree from a tech school certainly helps you get a job, but there are no federal requirements. I've worked with guys that didn't even have a drivers license.

Some states (cities?) have requirements. "Mechanics Licenses" and such. Never needed one myself, worked in 4 shops across 3 states. I held a State Inspectors License in VA until I moved out west, only required to perform state safety inspections.

[Ichima]

Update: Didn't even want to talk with the techs at the dealership anymore and have escalated to SOA. Got my diagnostics back from them stating that the noises are coming from my left head. Stated in order to fix the main cause they would have to remove the head, change my camshafts, and adjust my valve stems. Just so nobody has to go back and read, this dealership also stated that my headgaskets were bad so they invoiced me at $1100 to repair that. Yesterday I receive a call from the dealership stating my valves were bad. That I needed to replace my rocker, cams, etc. They also stated that with the work done on the valve springs and headgaskets, they did not touch any of those parts stated above and they will not be covering any issues at the moment on their behalf. So pretty much I'm shit out of luck is what they are saying. Within the time they had my car, they were able to put 0 miles on the vehicle mind you not.

[SuperTom]

I sure as hell would not be taking my car in for recall until this is resolved.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by maslin

The US has zero regulation. No required schooling, training, certification, documents, nothing. A degree from a tech school certainly helps you get a job, but there are no federal requirements. I've worked with guys that didn't even have a drivers license.

Some states (cities?) have requirements. "Mechanics Licenses" and such. Never needed one myself, worked in 4 shops across 3 states. I held a State Inspectors License in VA until I moved out west, only required to perform state safety inspections.

In Canada a tech has to go through a full training program. It can take several years and cost $10,000 or more for the classes that are required to get to Journeyman status. It is a College of Trades job so like nurses, dental hygienists or any other job regulated by a College (as in an association not the school type of college) you must be registered to even put a wrench to a car for pay. Even the lowest of the low oil change guys at dealerships are usually first year apprentices even though a license is not required to do that work. There is a LOT at risk if you screw up too often and lose your job at the place sponsoring your apprenticeship. You could go a long time before finding another place to take you on so you can resume getting your hours and class room stuff.
The College of Trades monitors progress very closely and if there is any discrepancy in an apprentice's documentation, log books (they have to record everything they do) or school records they can and will pull them from the program and they will never legally be in that trade.


This is what they have to go through:
https://www.collegeoftrades.ca/wp-co...rvice-Tech.pdf

[PWBRZ]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

In Canada a tech has to go through a full training program. It can take several years and cost $10,000 or more for the classes that are required to get to Journeyman status. It is a College of Trades job so like nurses, dental hygienists or any other job regulated by a College (as in an association not the school type of college) you must be registered to even put a wrench to a car for pay. Even the lowest of the low oil change guys at dealerships are usually first year apprentices even though a license is not required to do that work. There is a LOT at risk if you screw up too often and lose your job at the place sponsoring your apprenticeship. You could go a long time before finding another place to take you on so you can resume getting your hours and class room stuff.
The College of Trades monitors progress very closely and if there is any discrepancy in an apprentice's documentation, log books (they have to record everything they do) or school records they can and will pull them from the program and they will never legally be in that trade.


This is what they have to go through:
https://www.collegeoftrades.ca/wp-co...rvice-Tech.pdf

Wow. That’s impressive- My new plan’C’: move to Canada


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[Decep]

Originally Posted by Ichima

Update: Didn't even want to talk with the techs at the dealership anymore and have escalated to SOA. Got my diagnostics back from them stating that the noises are coming from my left head. Stated in order to fix the main cause they would have to remove the head, change my camshafts, and adjust my valve stems. Just so nobody has to go back and read, this dealership also stated that my headgaskets were bad so they invoiced me at $1100 to repair that. Yesterday I receive a call from the dealership stating my valves were bad. That I needed to replace my rocker, cams, etc. They also stated that with the work done on the valve springs and headgaskets, they did not touch any of those parts stated above and they will not be covering any issues at the moment on their behalf. So pretty much I'm shit out of luck is what they are saying. Within the time they had my car, they were able to put 0 miles on the vehicle mind you not.

have you considered taking it to another shop or dealer for a 2nd or 3rd opinion? if that opinion is a lot different than this dealership's you will have some ammo to fight back with.

this doesn't make any sense.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Ichima

Thank you for your input. They told me I have to pick my car up today before i start accumulating storage fees. I am also waiting on response still from soa.

THIS is that dealer trying to get you to take your car off their lot. They're hoping that you go away, or after its gone they can claim YOU did something after the fact.


Fact is, they screwed up when they changed your headgaskets (if they even did this) and now they're wanting to take advantage of you or have you go away.


Do NOT let this go, be calling every hour until someone rectifies this, start a conversation with a lawyer, contact a local new source that helps identify fraudulent businesses in your area. Don't just let this go.

[Ichima]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

THIS is that dealer trying to get you to take your car off their lot. They're hoping that you go away, or after its gone they can claim YOU did something after the fact.


Fact is, they screwed up when they changed your headgaskets (if they even did this) and now they're wanting to take advantage of you or have you go away.


Do NOT let this go, be calling every hour until someone rectifies this, start a conversation with a lawyer, contact a local new source that helps identify fraudulent businesses in your area. Don't just let this go.

So, got word from SOA. Dealership is claiming aftermarket parts. Only aftermarket part on my car is the catback exhaust. Very hard to believe that a catback will destroy my heads and valves. They also flagged my vehicle in the system according to another subaru dealership. Rep at SOA told me to get diagnostics done at another dealership so i called to make an appointment and the dealership says they are willing to help me but it's flagged.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Ichima

So, got word from SOA. Dealership is claiming aftermarket parts. Only aftermarket part on my car is the catback exhaust. Very hard to believe that a catback will destroy my heads and valves. They also flagged my vehicle in the system according to another subaru dealership. Rep at SOA told me to get diagnostics done at another dealership so i called to make an appointment and the dealership says they are willing to help me but it's flagged.

Wow, they're trying every single option to get you to come out of pocket. They GLADLY did the repair with no issues, but now that something they did is coming back to bite them they're trying to sweep it away.

[Ichima]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Wow, they're trying every single option to get you to come out of pocket. They GLADLY did the repair with no issues, but now that something they did is coming back to bite them they're trying to sweep it away.

Forgot to state that my car was way too low apparently. It's on OEM suspension. But i don't understand how any of these statements will affect my motor in any way or form. Isn't there some sort of act that must state these parts must be the actual reasoning for damage on the vehicle?

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by Ichima

Forgot to state that my car was way too low apparently. It's on OEM suspension. But i don't understand how any of these statements will affect my motor in any way or form. Isn't there some sort of act that must state these parts must be the actual reasoning for damage on the vehicle?

Cat back and ride hieght have 0 to do with a head failing.

Removing the head, taking apart to put valve springs and doing something wrong is what causes a head to fail.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ichima

Forgot to state that my car was way too low apparently. It's on OEM suspension. But i don't understand how any of these statements will affect my motor in any way or form. Isn't there some sort of act that must state these parts must be the actual reasoning for damage on the vehicle?

Lawyer up. It will cost you but less than just giving in. There is little you can do to fight this yourself at this point.