Should I go AT or MT?

[Twinz]

I have a 2015 AT and a 2016 MT.

I recommend the AT for the OP, unless he thinks he may someday compete with it. The Twins' AT is my favorite slush-box of all the AT's I have driven at the track, but it gives up too much time to the MT on the launch. I have not ran data on them back to back, but I suspect the auto gives up a little time on course too. The launch is the place the butt dyno notices it most.

I love the MT when driving at, or near the limit, but I prefer our auto for driving around town and road trips. ...and the AT is still plenty fun for "spirited" driving. I like the AT "sport" mode. (not to be confused with the stability system's "sport" mode which I am not a fan of)

[Overdrive]

Seeing as the AT is geared slower all the way through, it's never going to be as fast as a manual in pretty much any situation. Still fun though, right?

[3ntropy]

Originally Posted by Braces

Most high performance cars (Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche, etc) come with paddles (DCT) because their target demographics demand it. You think Justin Bieber or Kylie Kartrashion can drive a manual? It's all about economics. Poseurs can't drive manuals.

As for quicker track times. Seriously .... how many people really track their cars? A very small %. I'll take the extra steps that a manual requires over a quicker track time every day of the week.

...Manual transmissions are becoming obsolete not because a computer can shift faster, but because people are posers...Dear lord. Have a great day lol

[3ntropy]

Originally Posted by krayzie

Even bicycles are doing away with the manual trim adjuster and going full electronic shifting with auto trim.

That's pretty interesting actually, I'm not one to spend $3k on a road bike as I'm sure that's how much a bike like that would cost but it's still nice to see innovation.

[krayzie]

Originally Posted by 3ntropy

...Manual transmissions are becoming obsolete not because a computer can shift faster, but because people are posers...Dear lord. Have a great day lol

I see it as a cash grab (especially on wealthy people at the pricey end) that neither has the skill or desire to drive a stick shift. Just market the automatic as high tech with a bunch of non-sense numbers and features to back it up.

The manual transmission will probably never go away and may eventually end up being marketed as something upscaled and high-class niche like what happened to turntables, mechanical watches, fountain pens, etc.

[Calvin27]

Originally Posted by 3ntropy

That's pretty interesting actually, I'm not one to spend $3k on a road bike as I'm sure that's how much a bike like that would cost but it's still nice to see innovation.

Yeah, I'd double that number. Triple if mountain bike.

Manuals are still the best bang for buck performance trans. Simple as that. Are there faster? Yes, but they cost a bit more and have higher maintenance costs.
Their demise is the same with all technology, the more masses that use it the simpler it has to be.

MP3 didn't beat CDs because they were better sound quality, they took over because it was easier to use.

[shiumai]

The problem with this whole AT vs. MT argument is that 'fun' is subjective. I didn't consider driving a manual for 30 years 'fun' - it was just the way I changed gears. I didn't feel more involved because gear changing was 2nd nature. There were times when I did wish I had an auto because the clutch was tiring in stop and go traffic (my 280Z had a heavy clutch). Sure, I could launch harder, do burnouts and chirps with a manual but I grew out of that in college.

Now that I drive an auto, I don't feel any less involved in the driving experience. I'm just not using my left foot, and I'm not missing it at all. An auto actually makes a tedious/boring drive (like stop and go traffic) more tolerable. I actually have more fun using the paddle shifters because they're a novelty to me. I also like the power windows and mirrors. I really didn't find having to roll down the passenger window to manually adjust my right side mirror more fun or engaging. The 'fun' factor in driving (to me) has more to do with where I'm driving; not what I'm driving.

Arguing that manual transmission is more fun is like arguing what food tastes better or art is better. It's egocentric and presumptuous.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by shiumai

Arguing that manual transmission is more fun is like arguing what food tastes better or art is better. It's egocentric and presumptuous.

[Calvin27]

Originally Posted by shiumai

Arguing that manual transmission is more fun is like arguing what food tastes better or art is better. It's egocentric and presumptuous.

I'd say it's more about control. You select when to change gears, when to downshift, you can use the clutch to your advantage etc.

With an automatic, you lose that. They all fail to predict hills, corners and the like ahead and do still lag behind a manual.

DSG or whatever equivalents are different, you still control the gears. The issue with these isn't so much 'fun' but rather that they are not a mature technology and hence, expensive (initially and maintenance wise) and some have issues.

So yeah as a manual fan, I can conceed that they are going the way of the dodo. But right now, they are best bang for buck. As for longevity, it doesn't matter, dodo principle applies also to dsg and auto boxes because EVs will render them useless.

[Braces]

Originally Posted by 3ntropy

...Manual transmissions are becoming obsolete not because a computer can shift faster, but because people are posers...Dear lord. Have a great day lol

Are you having a difficult time reading the entire post or do you make a habit of just commenting on parts?

It's economics firstly. Lap numbers second. High end markets do not want to waste their resources developing two separate transmissions (Manual and DCT/AT). Again ... at the high end ..... only a very SMALL % of buyers wanted manuals.

To make matters worse .... OEMs like Porsche, Ford are ....... "now" offering limited production manuals (911R, GT350R) at extremely high cost (read: profit). Mo money. Even the prices for Ferrari F430 manuals are astronomically high mostly driven by the market. Not because the computer can shift faster.

I'll say it again. Most high end cars are bought and driven by posers. The true enthusiasts make up a very small segment.

So back to the OP. Buy the manual and enjoy the learning experience. When you get older ... you can tell you kids that you actually shifted gears and drove your car. You're kids will say you're full of shit because all cars are self driven, computer controlled.

It's all good.

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

You don't mind when other people tell you that what you consider 'fun' or not, is wrong?

Originally Posted by Calvin27

I'd say it's more about control. You select when to change gears, when to downshift, you can use the clutch to your advantage etc.

With an automatic, you lose that. They all fail to predict hills, corners and the like ahead and do still lag behind a manual.

This thread applies to our cars, which have paddle shifters. With the shifters, you select when to change gears, downshift etc. You don't lose that. A manual transmission doesn't predict hills or corners either - the driver does. What lag are you referring to? You can change gears very quickly with the paddle shifters.

Also, what are the advantages that you can use the clutch to? I've already mentioned launching, burning out etc. But what practical advantage is there in daily driving that a clutch provides?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by shiumai

You don't mind when other people tell you that what you consider 'fun' or not, is wrong?

Nope. I don't give a shit. For instance, I think it's sad that people feel a need to outgrow (more like suppress) their inner child. I'm in my mid-50s and would be hooning around all day long given a good supply of rubber and a safe place to do it.

Life's too goddamn short to sweat the bullshit.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Braces

I'll say it again. Most high end cars are bought and driven by posers. The true enthusiasts make up a very small segment.

'high end'?

How about just a blanket 'all sporty cars'

For every 86, Miata, or Mustang at the autox or track there's 10 sitting parked on the same Saturday while their owners are sleeping in.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Nope. I don't give a shit. For instance, I think it's sad that people feel a need to outgrow (more like suppress) their inner child. I'm in my mid-50s and would be hooning around all day long given a good supply of rubber and a safe place to do it.

Life's too goddamn short to sweat the bullshit.

Put me in the "I don't get a fuck" club too. Life is way to short for that shit!!