Expert prognosis for the planet

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I read that and immediately thought of a new teen driver or grandpa Joe, but then I imagined anyone really. Seems like so many people shouldn’t drive based on door dings and side swipes.

Not the same, sorry.

Maybe her GPS location/signal was jumping around if that confused the car, but all I can do is make baseless conjecture.

Lets hope its not that dependent on GPS. GPS is accurate to within a few dozen feet, which is great for most things but not so much for staying on the road or avoiding sidewalks, and definitely won't help with the side of your garage.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Not the same, sorry.



Lets hope its not that dependent on GPS. GPS is accurate to within a few dozen feet, which is great for most things but not so much for staying on the road or avoiding sidewalks, and definitely won't help with the side of your garage.

For the record:
GPS is pretty damn accurate if you have DGPS calibrations from a nearby location. The further you get from publicly accessible DGPS calibration site the less accurate it gets. Even using DGPS is iffy sometimes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_GPS

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Spuds

For the record:
GPS is pretty damn accurate if you have DGPS calibrations from a nearby location. The further you get from publicly accessible DGPS calibration site the less accurate it gets. Even using DGPS is iffy sometimes.

It's pretty damn accurate when it is, but not when its not, and there's the issue. It is also subject to shutdown in areas at time for testing, etc. Pretty much every time I look at a weather briefing there is a NOTAM for some area where the service is either out or degraded.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

It's pretty damn accurate when it is, but not when its not, and there's the issue. It is also subject to shutdown in areas at time for testing, etc. Pretty much every time I look at a weather briefing there is a NOTAM for some area where the service is either out or degraded.

Just providing some background info.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Just providing some background info.

Understood and how I took it.

I think we've taken this about as far astray as we can at this point.

Well, unless we want to discuss how the real threat to the planet is how Tesla and SpaceX automation will lead to Skynet!

Now back to your regularly scheduled planet gloom and doom....

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Not the same, sorry.

Lets hope its not that dependent on GPS. GPS is accurate to within a few dozen feet, which is great for most things but not so much for staying on the road or avoiding sidewalks, and definitely won't help with the side of your garage.

Well, it is the same. Features like Summon or different autonomy levels will always be judged based on their human counterparts. The system will never be perfect, but if it is the same or better than grandpa Joe then it will be acceptable by society's standards. If the system is better than the average person, as it pertains to metrics that matter and not just simulations or controlled tests, but in real life, then it will be more than just accepted--it could become mandated like seatbelts, airbags or antilock brakes. These metrics would be things like total deaths, total accidents, severity of accidents that do occur, severity of injuries, pedestrian deaths and injuries, etc. I've seen many people side swipe cars in my life. I haven't seen a machine side swipe a car yet. Seems like these car systems are miles ahead of these drivers:

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Well, it is the same. Features like Summon or different autonomy levels will always be judged based on their human counterparts.

Sorry, its not the same until the "driver" of the car is treated equally and takes responsibility for its mistakes. Tesla isn't doing that, and it skirts it by saying "here hold this button down so you have liability and we don't". And yes, that is different the monitoring done by other self driving systems. I know we see that different, so we won't be convincing each other otherwise, and that's OK. We can still be forum friends.

BTW, when I said GPS was accurate to within a few dozen feet, I meant accurate within about a dozen feet. My error, oh and I take responsibility for it

[nextcar]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

BTW, when I said GPS was accurate to within a few dozen feet, I meant accurate with about a dozen feet. My error, oh and I take responsibility for it

Last I checked, GPS maintains an AVERAGE error of less than 16 feet... but GPS accuracy can be affected by many things, including signal reflection off buildings in urban areas - so actual errors can be substantially larger than 16 feet.

So perhaps you needlessly took responsibility...

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Sorry, its not the same until the "driver" of the car is treated equally and takes responsibility for its mistakes. Tesla isn't doing that, and it skirts it by saying "here hold this button down so you have liability and we don't". And yes, that is different the monitoring done by other self driving systems. I know we see that different, so we won't be convincing each other otherwise, and that's OK. We can still be forum friends.

BTW, when I said GPS was accurate to within a few dozen feet, I meant accurate within about a dozen feet. My error, oh and I take responsibility for it

That is where I will have to agree to disagree, where I side with Tesla and with their agreement-of-use clause. People are free to use their product or service within the limits of its abilities in any given situation and must maintain control when operating their product. Fail to do wither then it is on the user.

I think it is a case by case scenario. As someone who works in the ER and who’s brother is an officer, we have many stories of people trying to shift the blame off of themselves. When it comes to the Summon feature, if someone doesn’t want to assume responsibility then they don’t have to use the feature or pay for the feature. If someone can demonstrate that Tesla was in the wrong like the car rapidly accelerated beyond the ability of their reaction time when they were being attentive then that is on Tesla. Tesla may not volunteer to say they were in the wrong unless they have the black box data that proves it. That is when the insurance company can choose to pursue Tesla or not, and it is where a person can demonstrate to their insurance that Tesla was in the wrong. Like a dispute between two drivers who hit each other, the insurance will still cover repairs, and then find fault to see if they will raise or maintain the insurer’s premiums, and finally, they will determine if it is worth it for them to pursue the other party—Tesla in this case.

I’m sure Tesla is not unique in their terms-of-use statement. With several more companies expanding their autonomous capabilities, we will see if these issues extend to them as well.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I’m sure Tesla is not unique in their terms-of-use statement. With several more companies expanding their autonomous capabilities, we will see if these issues extend to them as well.

I agree they all have this, and I hold other companies to the same standard, but as far as I know no other company is saying their cars are capable of autonomous driving in a Walmart parking lot, outside maybe pulling in and out of a parking spot, or parallel parking.

Also, as far as Terms-of-use, I think we can all agree that the most common lie told in the last 30 years is "I have read and understood the terms of use of this piece of software".

[Irace86.2.0]

I missed an Earth Day post here because my engine blew.

[Irace86.2.0]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/climate...30-11619170202

Climate Summit: How Do You Cut 50% of Greenhouse-Gas Emissions by 2030?



No vegan choice?! Wtf

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

https://www.wsj.com/articles/climate...30-11619170202

Climate Summit: How Do You Cut 50% of Greenhouse-Gas Emissions by 2030?



No vegan choice?! Wtf

Lol. Apparently certain networks that are lax about fact checking reported a tabloid story saying 'the USG climate plan could possibly do something to make people eat less meat' as a fact, followed by the predictable outrage and grandiose statements. I don't think you will be seeing that as an option for a while.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I missed an Earth Day post here because my engine blew.

First, sorry about your engine, but sounds like you have a solid plan to replace it so hope that works out.

Now, not really sure why I should care what Lewis Hamilton (or any other celebrity on anything) thinks, but OK.

The last one about the "family" just gets a "give me a break" and an eye roll from me. I VERY large percentage of the animals he intends with this 1) don't live in "families" and 2) wouldn't exist if it weren't for them being part of food production and would not continue to exist if everyone went Vegan.

Then we would have to get into the whole "Angus cattle are now an endangered species" thing I suppose.