STX Rules and Setup Questions

[cjd]

Originally Posted by justinco

There was a thread/reply on the forums here somewhere, that covered the Sprint kit benefits over the new PP Brembos.

I can't seem to find it atm, but basically the AP Sprint kit is a much better setup.

Originally Posted by justinco

Ooh, I found it @cjd

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=18

Perfect. Thanks! Now, to find the car I want... I suppose i could sell the stuff (like the brakes) I don't actually want and might not be losing more money in doing so, unless I can't find a good rear brake match for the Sprint...

Anything you've learned in your switch worth noting?

[justinco]

Originally Posted by cjd

Perfect. Thanks! Now, to find the car I want... I suppose i could sell the stuff (like the brakes) I don't actually want and might not be losing more money in doing so, unless I can't find a good rear brake match for the Sprint...

Anything you've learned in your switch worth noting?

The AP Sprint kit is meant to be used with stock rear brakes (not sure if that includes the PP rear brakes?).

Only thing worth noting is, make sure you have a piston spreading tool for when you change pads. I got this one, Disc Brake Pad Spreader

Sorry about the car, good luck finding a new one!

EDIT: And here are some pads that fit the AP Racing Sprint kit too. Took me a while to find the right part #'s.

Hawk HPS pads for AP Racing Sprint kit
Hawk DTC60 (track) pads for AP Racing Sprint kit

[cjd]

Originally Posted by justinco

The AP Sprint kit is meant to be used with stock rear brakes (not sure if that includes the PP rear brakes?).

Yeah, so that'll be what I look for. I can probably get stock rear calipers from someone as part of a deal if I somehow can only find the PP model available.

As for the rest - good info, but I was curious about the switch to the updated platform in general. I've mostly kept up, so I'm guessing there's nothing to speak of. I have a bit more of a winter project than planned so not searching to find the answers myself is me trying to be efficient.

C

[justinco]

Originally Posted by cjd

Yeah, so that'll be what I look for. I can probably get stock rear calipers from someone as part of a deal if I somehow can only find the PP model available.

As for the rest - good info, but I was curious about the switch to the updated platform in general. I've mostly kept up, so I'm guessing there's nothing to speak of. I have a bit more of a winter project than planned so not searching to find the answers myself is me trying to be efficient.

C

Oh, gotcha. Yea, most everything is the same as on the older cars. Some things to note (off top of my head), if you are doing STX build, you may already know most of these:

1. The gearing obviously. You will want a higher limiter and probably 255/40 tires to get the most MPH out of 2nd gear.
2. The stock rear sway bar is 16mm, I put the older model 14mm on, and soon the Mann Eng adjustable.
3. The axle back connection is a different size flange. Probably a non-issue since you would normally install a full exhaust.
4. Stock airbox is different. Uses a different drop-in filter and 2017 specific Perrin inlet tube (if you go those routes). Other pre-2017 airboxes seem to fit fine.
5. ECUtek support has been pretty rocky for the 2017's. I think they are mostly through all the bugs now though, finally.
6. You get more chicks with the 2017+ cars.

HTH

[cab33]

What is the set up to run 17x9 wheels and clear the BRZ Perforamnce Package Brembos?
What wheels/offset works or do you pretty much need to run spacers?

[FirstWinter]

Originally Posted by cab33

What is the set up to run 17x9 wheels and clear the BRZ Perforamnce Package Brembos?
What wheels/offset works or do you pretty much need to run spacers?

These should clear according to other users but I would double check first. The beloved RPF1s in 17x9 +35 will need a spacer. I want to say the TC105N 17x9 +35 should clear too since they clear other Brembo BBK but I haven't seen anybody post info. Volk TE37, TWS T-66F, Volk ZE40, seem like they should clear but I would check these as well. Finding them in 17x9 might be harder to find.

Gram Lights 57CR - 17x9+38
Gram Lights 57DR - 17x9+38
Apex ARC-8 - 17x9+42
Ambit RE02 - 17x9+35
949 Racing 6UL - 17x9+40

[jbailey8748]

Are these tow arms stx legal. Are any tow arms stx legal? The rules aren't clear enough to me until recently I thought it was illegal but seeing them in the kit for ssc is making me rethink that.
I just want them to make the alignment easier.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by jbailey8748

Are these tow arms stx legal. Are any tow arms stx legal? The rules aren't clear enough to me until recently I thought it was illegal but seeing them in the kit for ssc is making me rethink that.
I just want them to make the alignment easier.

I think they're legal as part of the allowance on "camber kits" specifying multiple links can be changed, some disagree.

There's some discussion from this post onward:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=2853

I have the SPC arms sitting on a shelf waiting to go in sometime in the next few weeks, I'll measure the bushings to be sure they meet the 'no additional metal' rule.

Edit:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=2867

[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I think they're legal as part of the allowance on "camber kits" specifying multiple links can be changed, some disagree.

There's some discussion from this post onward:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=2853

I have the SPC arms sitting on a shelf waiting to go in sometime in the next few weeks, I'll measure the bushings to be sure they meet the 'no additional metal' rule.

Edit:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=2867

Interesting take on it...maybe we should write to SEB for clarification?


I always read it as TL;DR "you can only change one arm" so we all choose the one that gives the most benefit; the LCA. I do my own alignments and I do them every two months or so, so a rear toe arm would be so clutch to me.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

Interesting take on it...maybe we should write to SEB for clarification?


I always read it as TL;DR "you can only change one arm" so we all choose the one that gives the most benefit; the LCA. I do my own alignments and I do them every two months or so, so a rear toe arm would be so clutch to me.

By definition, 1 a-arm = multiple links, this is explicitly written in the rules. There is also already a clarification allowing multiple modifications to be made to one side of the suspension which I linked.

It's not a "take" and nowhere does it imply that only one arm can be changed (aside from upper vs lower)

[M0nk3y]

This isn't difficult guys, no need to interpret rules one way or another. It's not legal

14.8.H.1

1. On double/unequal arm (e.g., wishbone, multi-link) suspensions, only the upper arms OR lower arms may be modified or replaced, but not both. Non-integral longitudinal arms that primarily control fore/aft wheel movement (e.g., trailing arm(s) or link(s) of a multi-link suspension) may not be replaced, changed, or modified.

Just because SSC has something that STX does not, does not automatically mean that it's STX legal now. Write a letter and ask Toe-Links to be legal

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

This isn't difficult guys, no need to interpret rules one way or another. It's not legal

14.8.H.1

There are three links that comprise the 86s rear lower multi link suspension.

Two of them are lateral, one of them is longitudinal. Those two links also do nothing to control fore/aft motion of the rear wheel via their OE spherical bearings, the third link does. All of them are integral to the rear suspension. I will make no mention of SSC rules.

This isn't interpretation, it's understanding the terms scca has written into their rules. It was never different, I have no idea how someone can read this as 'only one link can be non-OE' please elaborate further if I'm missing something.

1 a-arm = multiple links

Edit:

14.8.H. Camber kits (also known as camber compensators) may be installed. These kits consist of either adjustable length arms or arm mounts (includ- ing ball joints) that provide a lateral adjustment to the effective length of a control arm. Alignment outside the factory specifications is allowed. The following restrictions apply:
1. On double/unequal arm (e.g., wishbone, multi-link) suspensions, only the upper arms OR lower arms may be modified or replaced, but not both. Non-integral longitudinal arms that primarily control fore/aft wheel movement (e.g., trailing arm(s) or link(s) of a multi-link suspension) may not be replaced, changed, or modified.

[M0nk3y]

So lets just go back to simplicity sake...

"If it doesn't say you can do it, you can't"

You can't do toe-adjustments. They must remain OE.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

So lets just go back to simplicity sake...

"If it doesn't say you can do it, you can't"

You can't do toe-adjustments. They must remain OE.

But it says you can replace multiple lateral links to facilitate camber adjustment, to adjust camber on this car you must adjust the two lateral lower links of the multi-link suspension.

What do you mean by "they must remain OE"? I'm not installing a 'toe kit' I'm installing a piece of a 'camber kit' as sold by SPC.

These kits consist of either adjustable length arms or arm mounts (includ- ing ball joints) that provide a lateral adjustment to the effective length of a control arm.

I really do appreciate you fighting me on this, but the rules explicitly allow for multiple lateral links to be changed to achieve desired camber. The more I re-read it, the more I'm convinced.

What should the clarification letter be?

"Clarification on 14.8.H.1, can multiple lateral links of a multi-link suspension be changed from OE similar to what was clarified in letter #17733? This affects nearly all multi-link cars such as the 86/BRZ/FRS, WRX, Focus, Mustang, Camaro, non-trailing arm BMW's, 350Z/370Z, RX-8, etc. which typically already have some factory adjustment in one or more links and typically only require one additional modified link to achieve desired camber, however all cars would benefit from easier to adjust aftermarket lateral links in multiple locations where factory adjustment is deemed sub-par by the competitor."