Scion FR-S Cover Article in new Road and Track Magazine

[Spaceywilly]

I'm not saying it will be, just saying that's what it will take for me to buy one. They have been calling it a lightweight car. 3000lbs is not light.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

At least the ft86 will be RWD, though. It is easy to add power, but it's a lot harder to make a bad chassis handle well. 3000 is just too heavy for great handling. Hopefully it is more like 2600lbs but we'll just have to wait and see. If it's 2600lbs and in the low 20's, I'll buy one. If it's heavier, or more expensive, or both, you can count me out.

actually...3000lbs isnt that bad..it really depends on what kind of weight your talking about.. if the car weighs like 2300lbs without all the creature comforts, and 3000lbs wet with all sorts of junk, the car will still perform decently. For example my RX-7 had a 2900lbs curb weight. But still handled and performed beautifully. When I did some basic weight savings i brought her down to 2620lbs on the truck scale, this was still with carpeted interior stock seats and dash. My s14 had a curb weight of 2862lbs, and pumping out only 155hp...you would think that based on the stats alone...it would be a completely shit mobile. But it still handled and performed well, even despite being under powered, and the tuning capabilities of the 2 cars is endless.

So a 3000lbs curb weight/ 3160 wet ..with 200hp 170ftlbs is a good start..especially if its P:W is 1:15. It could be much much better...but still good compared to the rx-7 TII @ 1:16.1 and the 240sx @ 1:17.9, or even the Genesis Coupe Turbo @ 1:15.7

im hoping for a 1:12 performance stat with the FT86...which can be comparable to an RX-8 or Legacy GT Turbo in terms of performance.

[Random_Art]

hey, the last generation Celica weighed in around 2500lbs. I can't imagine a RWD configuration adding more than an extra 150lbs to that. It can be done at this price point

[Spaceywilly]

All good points. This car is really about what it feels like to drive and I hope that it can defy its specs which haven't blown me away so far. My WRX is 3100lbs and it is really nimble. The cayman is 2954lbs also. Still though, I think it will just be an ok handling car at 3000lbs. If they could get it into Miata territory it could be a great handling car.

[nate89]

I like how as time goes on we sorta keep lowering our expectations of this car. First the HP of the engine, now the weight...soon all we'll care about is if it has four wheels and an engine lol. J/K What we need to do is hold Toyota to it's promises. If it doesn't have at least 200hp and weigh under 2600-2700lbs then they should even bother making the car and quit teasing everyone.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

actually...3000lbs isnt that bad..it really depends on what kind of weight your talking about.. if the car weighs like 2300lbs without all the creature comforts, and 3000lbs wet with all sorts of junk, the car will still perform decently. For example my RX-7 had a 2900lbs curb weight. But still handled and performed beautifully. When I did some basic weight savings i brought her down to 2620lbs on the truck scale, this was still with carpeted interior stock seats and dash. My s14 had a curb weight of 2862lbs, and pumping out only 155hp...you would think that based on the stats alone...it would be a completely shit mobile. But it still handled and performed well, even despite being under powered, and the tuning capabilities of the 2 cars is endless.

So a 3000lbs curb weight/ 3160 wet ..with 200hp 170ftlbs is a good start..especially if its P:W is 1:15. It could be much much better...but still good compared to the rx-7 TII @ 1:16.1 and the 240sx @ 1:17.9, or even the Genesis Coupe Turbo @ 1:15.7

You're still looking at it too "logically", from a numbers standpoint. Of course a car over 3000lbs can perform and handle beautifully. My Supra was well over 3000lbs and it handled exceptionally. That's not the point. The point is how the car 'feels' when its being pushed in a spirited manner. You feel more connected to a 2600lb car than a 3000lb car because that's just how it is; it just responds and reacts better, crisper, like an extension of yourself (Giggity).

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter if its just a track monster @3000lbs. Toyota, and Subaru, would have completely missed their mark, their design goal by making such a small car weigh that much, especially in the spirit of the car labeled as its inspiration.

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

You're still looking at it too "logically", from a numbers standpoint. Of course a car over 3000lbs can perform and handle beautifully. My Supra was well over 3000lbs and it handled exceptionally. That's not the point. The point is how the car 'feels' when its being pushed in a spirited manner. You feel more connected to a 2600lb car than a 3000lb car because that's just how it is; it just responds and reacts better, crisper, like an extension of yourself (Giggity).

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter if its just a track monster @3000lbs. Toyota, and Subaru, would have completely missed their mark, their design goal by making such a small car weigh that much, especially in the spirit of the car labeled as its inspiration.

..i don't get what your saying....you say im just looking at numbers....yet you argue with my comment with...more numbers? umm sure

anywho...feeling is subjective..i know people who feel like a 96 maxima feels better than their old Miata during spirited driving..they compares apples to dog shit..and say dog shit tastes better. Some people say their 3500lbs SC300 has better spirited driving characteristics than a more nimble impreza.

All i was saying was that 3000lbs ain't that bad from a performance standpoint when you have roughly 200hp under the hood. It would be in a similar performance orientation as the VW GTI. I never said anything about feeling, nor did i even remotely refer to that direction.

And why can't someone look at a car "logically", its a car...with data, like other cars with soul..they still are just cars..

Yes I know that there is a point to what the company is trying to do with the car, and we shouldn't just focus on performance numbers, but it would be criminal to neglect the topic of ONLY talking about performance. Sometimes you NEED to leave "emotion" and "feelings" and "soul" out of the conversation and talk about it like a fucking machine.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

..i don't get what your saying....you say im just looking at numbers....yet you argue with my comment with...more numbers? umm sure

anywho...feeling is subjective..i know people who feel like a 96 maxima feels better than their old Miata during spirited driving..they compares apples to dog shit..and say dog shit tastes better. Some people say their 3500lbs SC300 has better spirited driving characteristics than a more nimble impreza.

All i was saying was that 3000lbs ain't that bad from a performance standpoint when you have roughly 200hp under the hood. It would be in a similar performance orientation as the VW GTI. I never said anything about feeling, nor did i even remotely refer to that direction.

And why can't someone look at a car "logically", its a car...with data, like other cars with soul..they still are just cars..

Yes I know that there is a point to what the company is trying to do with the car, and we shouldn't just focus on performance numbers, but it would be criminal to neglect the topic of ONLY talking about performance. Sometimes you NEED to leave "emotion" and "feelings" and "soul" out of the conversation and talk about it like a fucking machine.

I agree.

However, at those stats it wouldn't perform like a GTI. It's NA and would not have the torque. It may perform similarly at the drag strip, but in the real world, where traction is limited and most acceleration is done without dumping the clutch, it would be slower. The RX-8 might be doing 0-60 times in the 6's, but a better measure of acceleration is a standing start from 5-60...where it's in the mid 7 second range. With less horsepower but a bit more torque, I would expect this car to perform similarly if it was 3000lbs and 200hp.

However, I think it will be more like 2750-2850lbs, so it may actually wind up a bit quicker than an RX-8, especially if it responds nicely to intake and exhaust, which I would do immediately upon those things becoming available.

My main concern is that with a high-strung 2.0L, the car won't respond well to mods without MAJOR investment. I buy cars that I can have fun modding out.....larger displacements or forced induction just responds so much better.

[Dimman]

Was the magazine talking about a 3000lbs test weight maybe? ie, including the driver?

Subaru dropped a chunk of weight from the new gen Impreza, no reason they won't be aggressive in that department with this car.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Was the magazine talking about a 3000lbs test weight maybe? ie, including the driver?

Subaru dropped a chunk of weight from the new gen Impreza, no reason they won't be aggressive in that department with this car.

I think the magazine was just talking out their ass really. 3000lbs in a vehicle this size is pathetic and unacceptable. I'd consider 2800lbs overweight. With the Miata weighing around 2500 and having the extra chassis strength needed to forego a top, I think 2600-2650 would be perfectly do-able. Unfortunately, I don't really think they're going to hit that target. 3000lbs is just silly though. Hoping that they just made the number up and don't know something we don't.

[PAImportTuner]

Soo, over the weekend I bought a fully bloated Mini Cooper S with JCW package, almost bought a C30 instead, thank god I didn't I love the feel and speed of the nimble Mini. With that said, I still can't wait to see the FT86 released, I will most likely get the Subaru STI model. :happy0180:

[ft86cbx]

Not sure I could justify 22.5k base for one myself, but fun cars!

[bofa]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Soo, over the weekend I bought a fully bloated Mini Cooper S with JCW package, almost bought a C30 instead, thank god I didn't I love the feel and speed of the nimble Mini. With that said, I still can't wait to see the FT86 released, I will most likely get the Subaru STI model. :happy0180:

Quick! Someone warn the mini forums!

Nah, just messin' with ya. Glad you like the car - be sure to post up some pics when you get time. My mind changes almost weekly on the FT so I'm sure you aren't the only one that will head a different direction.

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Soo, over the weekend I bought a fully bloated Mini Cooper S with JCW package, almost bought a C30 instead, thank god I didn't I love the feel and speed of the nimble Mini. With that said, I still can't wait to see the FT86 released, I will most likely get the Subaru STI model. :happy0180:

Congrats bro, better you than me. lol

I'll probably be driving a GenCoupe before the years out. Just waiting for this GD Tokyo Auto Show.