Ask Chief Engineer Tada-san and Scion USA a question.

[tomato86]

Tada-san, do you recommend upgrading to a twin-disk clutch for daily driving in the 86?

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by tomato86

Tada-san, do you recommend upgrading to a twin-disk clutch for daily driving in the 86?

Why?

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by Supergoji

they can do it in a lab lol without a turbo. they can measure the forces that the internals can handle without deforming and sustaining damage.

You think they're going to risk telling owners what the engine can take with FI solely on lab tests? Don't be silly.

That said, it would be extremely complicated to model all the forces put onto every component in the engine under real conditions in a laboratory test. There are so many different thermal and mechanical loading conditions happening so quickly in the engine that predicting and isolating the worst case scenario for each and every component and then coming up with a test setup to replicate those conditions would be extremely difficult.

Definitely not worth it to Toyota or Subaru since as has been stated over and over again, there will be no factory forced induction. And it's very easy for them to put the TRD supercharger on a few test cars to determine whether it's going to impact long term reliability at 5 psi or whatever low number they'll use. Much, much easier than lab tests.

(I'm not just being a downer here, I worked as a structural test engineer for a while. Things get uber complicated when you're talking about an assembly as complicated as an IC engine with as much going on thermally as an IC engine on top of the mechanical stress)

Nathan

[ichitaka05]

I've being procrastinating. For few pages... I'll get on translation tomorrow!

& don't forget for everyone. Question will end on Dec 16th (my morning)

[doeboy]

I am new to the forum and im torn between which version to get, I really want the scion because I have an xb and I love toyota but the interior to the brz is calling me! I love the toggle switches................basically my question is this will scion come out with an upgrade package or a limited version with the toggle switch so that i can stay with scion? otherwise next summer I will purchase the subaru version

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by doeboy

I am new to the forum and im torn between which version to get, I really want the scion because I have an xb and I love toyota but the interior to the brz is calling me! I love the toggle switches................basically my question is this will scion come out with an upgrade package or a limited version with the toggle switch so that i can stay with scion? otherwise next summer I will purchase the subaru version

That's not really a question, but more like a statement

[WindMeisters]

Ichi thanks for all of this. I think the forum should donate and get you a present.
In regards to questions for Tada-san.

1. It was previously mentioned that the vehicle would receive yearly improvements. How soon can these be expected and will they be cosmetic or mechanical?

2. What are the current priorities to improve the vehicle. Are they adressing the main problems presented by owners, or simply making the car more appealing with kits. (Bad question for an engineer, he'll propbaly think is stupid)

3. What does the future hold for the GT86/ and derivatives? It is focusing on power? Or will we be seeing weight reductions instead of power gains?

As always thank you for everything Ichi. I am sure these questions have been asked one way or another. I leave it to your judgement and knowledge to decide what to ask, I simply wanted to put these out there just in case.

Thanks again

[Gords_zenith]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

You think they're going to risk telling owners what the engine can take with FI solely on lab tests? Don't be silly.

That said, it would be extremely complicated to model all the forces put onto every component in the engine under real conditions in a laboratory test. There are so many different thermal and mechanical loading conditions happening so quickly in the engine that predicting and isolating the worst case scenario for each and every component and then coming up with a test setup to replicate those conditions would be extremely difficult.

Definitely not worth it to Toyota or Subaru since as has been stated over and over again, there will be no factory forced induction. And it's very easy for them to put the TRD supercharger on a few test cars to determine whether it's going to impact long term reliability at 5 psi or whatever low number they'll use. Much, much easier than lab tests.

(I'm not just being a downer here, I worked as a structural test engineer for a while. Things get uber complicated when you're talking about an assembly as complicated as an IC engine with as much going on thermally as an IC engine on top of the mechanical stress)

Nathan

That's what they do for a living! They are PhD engineers designing this thing and their companies reputation relies on them developing a safe, powerful and reliable product on paper first before they will consider spending millions on tooling to start the pre-production test engines. So to say that modeling it using forced induction or not, is not a likely scenario than I think you're mistaken. Granted not all conditions can be thought of in the design stage, but in my mind I would think that they would pick the worst of worst scenarios and go from there. I.e) desert temps, to Arctic temps, to plugged filter, WOT with cold oil and go from there. The forces is the easy part, the hard part would the air flow through the engine to maximize fuel economy, power, reliability, drive-ability, etc. Fuel emission requirements are getting tougher and tougher, so to make 100 hp/l is amazing, granted its no 240 like the s2000 but the s2000 had less requirements to meet when it was brought out.

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by Gords_zenith

That's what they do for a living! They are PhD engineers designing this thing and their companies reputation relies on them developing a safe, powerful and reliable product on paper first before they will consider spending millions on tooling to start the pre-production test engines. So to say that modeling it using forced induction or not, is not a likely scenario than I think you're mistaken. Granted not all conditions can be thought of in the design stage, but in my mind I would think that they would pick the worst of worst scenarios and go from there. I.e) desert temps, to Arctic temps, to plugged filter, WOT with cold oil and go from there. The forces is the easy part, the hard part would the air flow through the engine to maximize fuel economy, power, reliability, drive-ability, etc. Fuel emission requirements are getting tougher and tougher, so to make 100 hp/l is amazing, granted its no 240 like the s2000 but the s2000 had less requirements to meet when it was brought out.

I still stand by my point that they're not going to bet the house on the fact that those calcs are right and tell tuners/owners that, "12 psi is like, totally okay!" and then risk lawsuits when idiots start blowing motors with bad tunes.

Achievable power levels are all in the tuning. A good tuner can get much more power out of the same engine, and have it do that all day every day, than someone who doesn't have the knowledge or experience to get things right. Detonation and other problems kill engines way quicker than the number of psi being shoved into the thing or the amount of HP being cranked out.

Nathan

[Gords_zenith]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

I still stand by my point that they're not going to bet the house on the fact that those calcs are right and tell tuners/owners that, "12 psi is like, totally okay!" and then risk lawsuits when idiots start blowing motors with bad tunes.

Achievable power levels are all in the tuning. A good tuner can get much more power out of the same engine, and have it do that all day every day, than someone who doesn't have the knowledge or experience to get things right. Detonation and other problems kill engines way quicker than the number of psi being shoved into the thing or the amount of HP being cranked out.

Nathan

Couldn't agree more!

[ichitaka05]

Last day. You got bout 24hrs now, cuz tomorrow morning (my time), I'll close this thread.

[Slartibartfast]

I've been trying to think of an intellegent question/request for days. Many have already been posted.

Big thanks to ichitaka05! Great work!!

Here's my post.

1)THANK YOU TADA-SAN FOR BUILDING THE CAR I'VE BEEN WANTING AUTO MANUFACTURES TO MAKE FOR YEARS!

2) (This question maight not be able to be answered by Tada-San, but it's worth a shot)
Is their a posibility of a stripped out, track focused edition of the 86 platform. No radio, no cruise control, no power windows, no extras. Wider fenders, carbon roof, trunk, and hood. Track friendly gear ratios, LSD, and a greatly stiffened chassis.
Other than that, just a clean slate for our own modifications and set-up tastes. Standard steel wheels, suspension, brakes, and seats (we're going to change all those anyway)


I love my car! It's my daily driver as well as the occasional track car. I don't want to do too many modifications that will take away from it's feel and balance on the street. I'm willing to buy a separate track car.

Thank you

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

I've been trying to think of an intellegent question/request for days. Many have already been posted.

Big thanks to ichitaka05! Great work!!

Here's my post.

1)THANK YOU TADA-SAN FOR BUILDING THE CAR I'VE BEEN WANTING AUTO MANUFACTURES TO MAKE FOR YEARS!

2) (This question maight not be able to be answered by Tada-San, but it's worth a shot)
Is their a posibility of a stripped out, track focused edition of the 86 platform. No radio, no cruise control, no power windows, no extras. Wider fenders, carbon roof, trunk, and hood. Track friendly gear ratios, LSD, and a greatly stiffened chassis.
Other than that, just a clean slate for our own modifications and set-up tastes. Standard steel wheels, suspension, brakes, and seats (we're going to change all those anyway)


I love my car! It's my daily driver as well as the occasional track car. I don't want to do too many modifications that will take away from it's feel and balance on the street. I'm willing to buy a separate track car.

Thank you

#2 have being selling in Japan, since the beginning. Prob would of being good question for Scion USA

[Sargy]

Originally Posted by cyde01

thanks ichi-san for doing this. my question to chief engineer tada-san:

まず始めに新ハチロクのような車を開発した多田さんに感激と感謝を申し上げたいです！残念ながら自分はまだ 購入していないのですが近い将来に買いたいと思っています！自分は軽量FRスポーツにずっと憧れてまして旧 ハチロクをレストレーションしようとした事もありますし、S2000に乗ってた時期もありました。S200 0に乗ってて感じた事は速くて楽しいがコーナリングは限界に近いとコントロールしにくい、という事でした。 対する新ハチロクはグリップの限界でも扱いやすいと聞いてますし、低重心、コンパクト、おまけにロードスタ ーにない実用性がある。まさに自分のようなユーザーの為に造られた車だと感じました！ラップタイムだけ意識 するのではなくフィーリングを何より大事にするポリシーは素晴らしい所をついてると思います！

そこで質問ですが、多田さんはユーザーにチューニングやドレスアップでそれぞれが自分だけのハチロクを造っ て欲しいという名言をおっしゃいました。チューニングの一つの例としてFactory Tuned 86も発表しましたね。自分もいつかはハチロクを買って自分だけの使用に仕上げて行きた者ですが、サーキッ トやグリップを楽しむ人はタイムを縮む為にどうしてもハイグリップタイヤや出力を上げる事を考えると思いま す。だけど、その路線に徹底するととせっかくハイグリップタイヤに頼らないハチロクの乗り味、ステアリング フィーリングの良さが失われてしまう気がします。そこで多田さんにお聞きしたいのは、多田さんはハチロクを チューニングするにあたって気をつけて欲しい事やチューニング上のアドバイスはありますか？特にサーキット でラップタイムを縮みたいけどハチロク独特のファンツードライブも失いたくない、というチューナーにアドバ イスはありますか？

次に聞きたいのはメーカー車種問わず多田さんが考える名車ベスト５はなんですか？

あとは開発中の面白エピソードとかありましたら是非聞かせて下さい！

I know what it says! I think

Something about an s2000 and a tuned 86 and how they would compare

Or how would it compare to an s2000 in general

*i did not use a translator*