Scion FR-S Cover Article in new Road and Track Magazine

[PAImportTuner]

Sorry about the rude reply, reading comprehension got the best of me. So yeah I think the active aero, turbo, light and nimble is what's getting me. I love the active aero feature, I seriously overlooked cabin/storage space and rwd. Lol

[blur]

IMO, this car needs to at least match the GC when it comes out. That way, Toyota can score buyers through reliability and comfort. Also, TBH, this car should be a low volume car that they will lose money on, since it's a halo car for scion. They'll be making dough off the people who come in to see the FRS and end up buying a tC.

that and 19K sounds attractive.

[bigbcraig]

Originally Posted by blur

IMO, this car needs to at least match the GC when it comes out. That way, Toyota can score buyers through reliability and comfort. Also, TBH, this car should be a low volume car that they will lose money on, since it's a halo car for scion. They'll be making dough off the people who come in to see the FRS and end up buying a tC.

that and 19K sounds attractive.

I think that it's quite possible that the car will be close to the current GC 2.0T stock for stock (210hp/3400# isn't that great of a ratio). I actually forgot how bad those numbers sound.

However I feel that it won't be a direct competitor but rather a bit of a flanking attack: With a (presumably, at least at release) NA H4 and much less length than the GC / Mustang V6, I see the FR-S as a lighter, simpler alternative that's as quick as a stock 2.0T but sells for its purer driving experience. The Genesis is well-composed but a bit uninspiring stock and really looooonnnnggggg.

If the FR-S was, say, 2800# and 190hp, (middle of the road to high power, based on our expectations and middle of the road weight), the FR-S would have a definite power/weight advantage (14.7 vs. 16.2) but the GC can cheaply make power whereas I think the FR-S won't have nearly the power potential; but with springs and dampers and good tires, should handle like nothing else this side of a Lotus (hopefully).

This is evidenced by the GC being tested with the Mustang as a benchmark and the FT mules being handling-benchmarked with a Cayman.


-As far as the supposed 274hp GC to come, well, a 2600hp/190hp FR-S would lose on paper unless the new Genesis gains a good bit of weight.

-It sounds like, with ever-tightening fuel economy scores, the next generation Camaro will be a lot smaller with no V8, at the most a FI V6 on the top trim; and I expect the Mustang will have to downsize as well. Beyond liking the concept of a light, pure car, I feel the tactic of starting small, simple, light, and efficient and then adding a turbo in a few years once it's established is a lot better than starting in 2012-2013 with an oversized chassis that will be obsolete soon. It's a lot easier to add power, length, frame reinforcement later than to make a naturally big car small and light.

[bigbcraig]

Originally Posted by PAImportTuner

Sorry about the rude reply, reading comprehension got the best of me. So yeah I think the active aero, turbo, light and nimble is what's getting me. I love the active aero feature, I seriously overlooked cabin/storage space and rwd. Lol

No problem at all. In fact, as I look backI see how I might've been interpreted as an asshole.

[WhiteKnight]

hopefully this will be what the production model will end up looking like

[WhiteKnight]

^^^ Total WIN!!!

[Laika]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

You should of seen original Mini, those thing were crownmobile. I have seen in person twice and both time, I thought it was crownmobile

I loled. I apologize if it wasn't a joke, either way I'm not laughing AT you. My people confuse their V's and W's and I think that's hilarious too.

[AIRMAX]

I understand some people's concerns about the S&T speculated specs.
- 200hp (149kW)
- 170lb/ft (220Nm)
- 3000lbs (1364kg)
- Sub 20-25K USD, about 30-40K AUD, depending on specs.

Let's look at the current market.
In Australia.
- VW Golf GTI, retail price 40-45K AUD
- FWD
- 207hp (155kW) (turbo charged)
- 206lb/ft (280Nm) (turbo charged)
- 2992lbs (1360kg)



-Subaru WRX, retail price 40-45K AUD
- 4WD
- 261hp (195kW) turbo
- 253lb/ft (343Nm) turbo
- 3208lbs (1460kg)

- Nissan 370Z, retail price 70-75K AUD
- RWD
- 330hp (245kW) V6
- 248lb/ft (336Nm) V6
- 3236lbs (1471kg)

- Nissan S15 Spec R, retailed for 45-50K AUD
- RWD
- 247hp (184kW) turbo
- 202lb/ft (275Nm) turbo
- 2794lbs (1270kg)

- Nissan S15 Spec S, retailed for 40K AUD
- RWD
- 163hp (121kW)
- 142lb/ft (192Nm)
- 2794lbs (1270kg)

- Mazda MX5 (Miata) 2009+, retails for 40K AUD
- RWD
- 170hp (130kW)
- 140lb/ft (190Nm)
- 2410lbs (1095kg)



Now you factor in the rumours, the FT-86, if priced under 40K AUD, or equivalent USD, is actually pretty much match up in between the Spec R S15 and the Miata.

Drive wise, I'd rather get the FT-86 over the GTI, everyone in Australia drives a Golf GTI, its the vanilla default "hot" hatch.
The 4WD WRX and V6 "fat" 370Z are different market altogether.....

[Aki]

Why couldn't the US get the S15 Silvia, sigh.

My guess is it's going to be 180hp, 2700 lbs. Doubt they'd kept talking about being lightweight and it ends up being 3000 lbs.

[JohnnyR]

Naw, Toyota wants to get that "enthusiast, passion, excitement" back to their brand. 3,000lbs is not going to do it for a $25,000 car with an anemic power plant. "Tipping the scales at 3,000" is going to not only hamper speed and acceleration, but also handling and braking. It'll go completely against what Toyota was trying to accomplish. If the car ends up this way though, it's DOA to enthusiasts. It'll sell some numbers to people who just like looks and couldn't possibly care any less about performance.

[bigbcraig]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

Naw, Toyota wants to get that "enthusiast, passion, excitement" back to their brand. 3,000lbs is not going to do it for a $25,000 car with an anemic power plant. "Tipping the scales at 3,000" is going to not only hamper speed and acceleration, but also handling and braking. It'll go completely against what Toyota was trying to accomplish. If the car ends up this way though, it's DOA to enthusiasts. It'll sell some numbers to people who just like looks and couldn't possibly care any less about performance.

[Random_Art]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

Naw, Toyota wants to get that "enthusiast, passion, excitement" back to their brand. 3,000lbs is not going to do it for a $25,000 car with an anemic power plant. "Tipping the scales at 3,000" is going to not only hamper speed and acceleration, but also handling and braking. It'll go completely against what Toyota was trying to accomplish. If the car ends up this way though, it's DOA to enthusiasts. It'll sell some numbers to people who just like looks and couldn't possibly care any less about performance.

Like the Tiburon?

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by Random_Art

Like the Tiburon?

At least the ft86 will be RWD, though. It is easy to add power, but it's a lot harder to make a bad chassis handle well. 3000 is just too heavy for great handling. Hopefully it is more like 2600lbs but we'll just have to wait and see. If it's 2600lbs and in the low 20's, I'll buy one. If it's heavier, or more expensive, or both, you can count me out.

[82mm 4g63]

Originally Posted by Spaceywilly

At least the ft86 will be RWD, though. It is easy to add power, but it's a lot harder to make a bad chassis handle well. 3000 is just too heavy for great handling. Hopefully it is more like 2600lbs but we'll just have to wait and see. If it's 2600lbs and in the low 20's, I'll buy one. If it's heavier, or more expensive, or both, you can count me out.

There is no way the FRS is going to weigh in under 2601 lbs.