LSAT Advice

[SkiRideDrive]

A word of hope... I scored 10 points higher on the real test than my practice test average. It did seem that I was the only one though. I attributed it to my week off before the exam.

[kch]

Originally Posted by calmtigers

top law school forums

oh god that place is a shithole

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by Timmy_Jones

That's awesome to hear, you are in the right place then. I don't think there are any secrets outside of those practice tests then. I have taken my share of standardized tests and I know the practice exams help greatly. I would highly recommend an LSAT app if you can find one. Instead of opening the phone to check social media, fire up a few practice questions.

That would be awesome. I picked up some cheap flash cards but they aren't the best, basically just break down questions over like eight cards each.

Originally Posted by calmtigers

Kaplan is not a good source, but if you're with them already and scoring well that is a good sign.
The test you took was a timed 5 section test?

I'd suggest checking out top law school forums and lawschooltransparency (look specific at employment rates)

Yes timed 5 section test and their practice tests are old lsat tests (the last 4). I got a different book for the logic games and it's much better than kaplan so I agree. Kaplan tends to over explain things that are already intuitive, thus overcomplicating and already complicated question.

Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive

A word of hope... I scored 10 points higher on the real test than my practice test average. It did seem that I was the only one though. I attributed it to my week off before the exam.

That's great to hear man! Hell if I get anywhere in this ball park in regards to my score I'll be pretty happy.

Originally Posted by kch

oh god that place is a shithole

I can see it now...I wonder is they have fights like car forums do... Civil vs. Criminal lol

[kch]

Originally Posted by raven1231

I can see it now...I wonder is they have fights like car forums do... Civil vs. Criminal lol

Nope, just a bunch of people shitting on schools, firms, jobs, everything. If you're not summa from HYS then you're doomed to work in garbagelaw for the rest of your life.

Edit: so pretty much like car forums.

[calmtigers]

Originally Posted by kch

Nope, just a bunch of people shitting on schools, firms, jobs, everything. If you're not summa from HYS then you're doomed to work in garbagelaw for the rest of your life.

Edit: so pretty much like car forums.

But tbh, can we prove otherwise? I believe they give a great insight and reality check to those looking at the toilet-tier

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by calmtigers

But tbh, can we prove otherwise? I believe they give a great insight and reality check to those looking at the toilet-tier

I suppose it really comes down to your goals. I would agree that if you plan on working for a top law firm that you likely need to get into one of the ivy leagues or at the very least be top of your class at a somewhat lesser school.

[kch]

Originally Posted by raven1231

I suppose it really comes down to your goals. I would agree that if you plan on working for a top law firm that you likely need to get into one of the ivy leagues or at the very least be top of your class at a somewhat lesser school.

That's the problem -- those forums are purely focused on V15 elite firms (and, if we're honest, really only Wachtell/Cravath/etc.). And in that case, then yes, you want to be summa from a T14. But (A) that's not all that's out there; and (B) you can totally make it into elite firms (if that's your thing) without being from a T14 school.

[raven1231]

Originally Posted by kch

That's the problem -- those forums are purely focused on V15 elite firms (and, if we're honest, really only Wachtell/Cravath/etc.). And in that case, then yes, you want to be summa from a T14. But (A) that's not all that's out there; and (B) you can totally make it into elite firms (if that's your thing) without being from a T14 school.

Yep, results and performance speaks louder than where you attended. It really does come down to what you want, and what you have to offer.

[calmtigers]

Originally Posted by kch

That's the problem -- those forums are purely focused on V15 elite firms (and, if we're honest, really only Wachtell/Cravath/etc.). And in that case, then yes, you want to be summa from a T14. But (A) that's not all that's out there; and (B) you can totally make it into elite firms (if that's your thing) without being from a T14 school.

Originally Posted by raven1231

Yep, results and performance speaks louder than where you attended. It really does come down to what you want, and what you have to offer.

Can you guys expand on this? I'd love to hear more or find some place where there is information regarding this.
Between this and abovethelaw things seem bleak if you're not killin t14

[kch]

Originally Posted by calmtigers

Can you guys expand on this? I'd love to hear more or find some place where there is information regarding this.
Between this and abovethelaw things seem bleak if you're not killin t14

It's all going to be anecdotal. For instance, I went to a regional state school ranked by USN around 50-60, located in a major market (ok fine, it was UHouston). Many of us on law review ended up in biglaw. Maybe not V15, but biglaw nonetheless. Several landed clerkships, even on federal circuit courts. One of my classmates and I are at a top-tier litigation boutique. Several of our classmates have already left biglaw for in-house positions with Shell, etc.

So yes, it's possible to succeed if you go to a law school ranked 50 or lower. Going to a T14 school will of course open up more doors, but going to a lower-ranked school isn't a death sentence.

[SkiRideDrive]

Another thing to note... assuming you will do well in law school cuz you did well in undergrad, is a very poor assumption to make. It is a whole nother ball game. The way your are tested is different (at least it was in regards to my engineering undergrad). Also, people can be fiercely competitive.

[raven1231]

Thanks everyone for the advice and help. I will be taking the test on Saturday so wish me luck ha ha.

[calmtigers]

Originally Posted by SkiRideDrive

Another thing to note... assuming you will do well in law school cuz you did well in undergrad, is a very poor assumption to make. It is a whole nother ball game. The way your are tested is different (at least it was in regards to my engineering undergrad). Also, people can be fiercely competitive.

Hey guys sorry if I'm asking for more, but if you could give some first hand experience on things or even stuff you'd do differently please do share!

Good luck bud, I'm taking December!


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[kch]

Originally Posted by calmtigers

Hey guys sorry if I'm asking for more, but if you could give some first hand experience on things or even stuff you'd do differently please do share!

It's really hard to explain, but hard work alone isn't always enough in law school. It's all about knowing the test--that is, being able to read a hypo and figure out what concepts the prof is really asking about. You can't write a good essay if you miss the little clues.

Most profs, especially in 1L year, will be pretty good at telling you in advance what their tests are like. The day they explain the exam is probably the most important single day of class. See if you can find exams from previous years to review. Share them with some of your friends, make outlines of your answer, and compare responses. (On a side note, while some people try to be super-competitive in 1L year, they're usually dbags who won't do as well as they expected. Don't be afraid to share notes or essays with your study group).

Some schools will have unofficial, student-made collections of outlines and notes from prior years. Definitely check them out, but don't rely on them--you have no idea how good or bad their notes are. Also, I found commercial outlines to be largely useless. I think the only thing I ended up using was a set of flashcards for 1L contracts.

When preparing for class (and you have to--don't skip your reading, kids), make sure you can always answer the "why." Particularly for civpro, get in the habit of always citing your authority for your answers in class. By that I mean if the prof is asking about choice of law, make sure you can point directly to § 1652, Erie, Byrd, Gasperini, etc., as appropriate. This is good practice for the exam and beyond.

As far as college performance vs. law school...that's tough to answer. I know there were a lot of very smart people with great undergrad GPAs who came into 1L year expecting to kick ass. Many of them didn't, and it was a huge blow to their egos. It's not that they weren't smart, though, and I can't identify a particular reason why they sucked at law school. Meanwhile, I failed out of undergrad twice and had a crappy GPA (undiagnosed ADHD), but was top 10% and on law review. *shrug*