Forza 3 vs. GT5 Discussion Thread

[NESW20]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

GT5 photo....

I love the Spirit R.


also, here's an article for you guys: http://www.motortrend.com/features/c...o_5/index.html

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by BoostJunkie

Dragonitti, I don't understand why you don't like customization, I mean I'm all about the driving, but if you can't customize you car, and I'm not just talking about pretty colors & decals.... Then the game gets boring, from what I've read it sounds like your really just a GT5 fan boy, I support all race games that even try to somewhat make it with realism.... Except all NFS(- shift...it was o.k.) but that's just my .02..... I've been reading for a while and you guys are pretty entertaining..... Continue on

I like customization in NeedForSpeed and "arcade" racer games. I have a different respect for GT5 however and do no wish for that feature to be within the game. To a degree yes I want that in GT5, but not to the extreme like it is in NFS and Forza. I don't want a bunch of custom engine swap options, bunch of decal choices...etc. I spend most of my time racing (even in NFS) than I do with making my car look pretty.

Don't have to be a fan boy, the evidence is all there man. Go look at the videos. GT5 is about racing, not about making a Civic into a RWD car and trying to drift it.

[BoostJunkie]

I look at customization like this, why not be able to do anything I'n the game that you yourself could do I'n real life, I.E. Engine swaps, FWD to RWD or AWD, now all it needs is diff company swaps, like Toyota to Nissan or Nissan to Mazda. But to me that's realism. Not being able to alter stuff like that just puts limits on things, as where that kind of customization is much more limitless then vise versa

The fan boy comment was because of the fact that I don't think you have given Fza3 any credit, just GT5... Where as snaps has given props to GT5 on several occasions, just saying if I'm wrong please let me know

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by Snaps

Still doesn't make GT5 a simulator...

Go tell that to Sebastian Vettel, or Sebastian Loeb.

Originally Posted by Snaps

Still doesn't make it a simulator, just makes it a game that uses realistic physics.

What's a simulator then if not for real physics...not following you here.

Originally Posted by Snaps

Doesn't matter about resolution if they still haven't got high-poly count car models. (Talking about standard cars here, Premium cars are more than high-enough for 1080P)

You keep talking about Standard cars as like some proof that GT5 can't render better models. The Standard cars are not a testament of Polyphony's ability to render a car, it's a testament to the time frame it takes for them to pump out Premium cars. There are some cars in the game that have both a Premium and a Standard version of itself. It's that way because they are still in the process of converting cars to Premium, which again as mentioned, they will be updating with some Premium car conversions soon.

Originally Posted by Snaps

And are there not other brands of TV to go for, that they have stock of in 60"? I would switch to another brand before wasting my time taking a TV home, setting it up, and then having to take it down again when the new TV gets in...

It does matter if the other TV's only shoot in 720p rather than 1080. Or the other TV's can't support Blue Ray.

Originally Posted by Snaps

GT5 or the GT series? Believe me I've played enough of the GT series, just not of GT5. I've played every GT up to GT4 and clocked every one of them. GT5 disappointed me and so I didn't buy it.

GT5 I'm talking. GT5 has a different physics engine than all the previous versions. I think you also need to spend time NOT playing the game and learning more about what went into creating it.

Originally Posted by Snaps

There is no reason they couldn't use Forza 3 to familiarize themselves with tracks, and I don't know enough to say whether they do or not.

-In accurate tracks
-In accurate physics

Are two major parts that would deter someone away from using FM3 to familiarize themselves with a track. If we are just talking consoles then you want the most accurate representation of that and it would be GT5. If you talking over all, then the PC SIMs are true simulators that people use to get hard core racing feedback.

Originally Posted by Snaps

Are you being serious? Have you seen the real-time telemetry in Forza 3? Any braking, throttle or turning affects the car's current ride height on all corners, affects how much the car is dipping while coming into corners how much it is leaning back when accelerating, among other things.

I think we need to agree that we both need to test the other game a little more....

That's not a clarification on whether or not doing a H-T-D changes the way the car behaves on corner entry.

Originally Posted by Snaps

At least it's there in EVERY car.

Give me no cockpit then.

Originally Posted by Snaps

And the reason for these? probably the storage size limit's of DVD's, I'm sure given Blu-ray and the PS3's hardware Turn 10 could have produced the same effects as GT5 in the bolded areas.

I'm sure Forza 4 will greatly improve in all of the other aspects, hopefully getting close to, or beating GT5's physics and road surface feel.

That would require them to change their approach to making FM3. They focus on the Fun and creativity of things and racing takes a back seat to that. It would require them to send people out to actually race cars before they can understand those details.

Originally Posted by Snaps

And that's where a lot of the downfall comes in.... Forza 3 had to use 2 DVD's because of the amount of content with regards to extra cars and tracks, they couldn't fit it on to one DVD.

So, what's going to happen then in order for them to continue to grow? Make you install 3, 4, 5 disc? All because MS is to stupid to have adopted the Blue Ray standard. I can't wait to see what PS4 and GT6 combination will yield.

Originally Posted by Snaps

You can't compare real-life to a video game. There are just too many variables to be able to get a clear answer. How do you know those driver's aren't better (or worse) using a controller/racing wheel than driving in real life, when they can feel the movements of the car, can feel the limit's of the friction of the tires? And most importantly, when you have things like adrenaline and fear changing the way a driver acts, those don't come into affect nearly as much when you're playing a video game as to when you're racing in a real car. (Yes, I have been on a racetrack, twice. It is a COMPLETELY different experience than driving with a racing wheel at home)

Did you miss some of the videos or simply didn't watch them?

Youtube search GT5 vs Real Life, you get 616 hits. Do the same for Forza and you get 168 hits.

You also get videos of people doing overlaying laps to compare to the same laps in GT5. No video like that is done for FM, if they did you would "really" see the inaccuracies of the track they produce in FM.

Of course I track race in real life (evident by my sig pic).

Originally Posted by Snaps

Go and play Forza 3. Keep in mind I am only referring to the standard car models vs. Forza 3 car models, not the track itself. I am talking about in-game too.

I don't need to, I can pop in GT5 drive a standard car and then go compare it to FM3's Lamborghini. The FM3 Lambo in this vid looks no better than a GT5 Standard Car.

Originally Posted by Snaps

The amount of content in GT5P is ridiculously low compared to Forza 3, it doesn't have anywhere near as many cars or tracks.

So, 1000cars is less than 500? You will probably say something to the effect that 200 are only Premium. Yea, true that, but those 200 supercede the entire 500 the FM3 has. Quality > Quantity.

Tracks? Again, give me quality over quantity. If I had a choice to race on 5 different tracks that were down to the pebble of rock on the road surface in detail vs 10 tracks that were only about 80% accurate, I'll take the 5 tracks.



L

Originally Posted by Snaps

ook at the Supra MKIV model as an example, it's terrible. Or the Suzuki Wagon R (I think it is?).

Wow, these posts are getting ridiculously long

Most likely will be converted to a Premium model with an update.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by BoostJunkie

I look at customization like this, why not be able to do anything I'n the game that you yourself could do I'n real life, I.E. Engine swaps, FWD to RWD or AWD, now all it needs is diff company swaps, like Toyota to Nissan or Nissan to Mazda. But to me that's realism. Not being able to alter stuff like that just puts limits on things, as where that kind of customization is much more limitless then vise versa

The fan boy comment was because of the fact that I don't think you have given Fza3 any credit, just GT5... Where as snaps has given props to GT5 on several occasions, just saying if I'm wrong please let me know

I don't agree with your idea of customization. You can't do everything yourself in real life, for one rules and regulations would prevent it in racing events, and two it would bring the "ricer" to the series with stupid graphic renderings. That's what I would like to keep away from GT5. Turning it into a kiddie game. It's not meant to entertain first and then race second. It's meant to teach about motorsports first and then race and then customization is just a little feature tossed in there.

I have given it credit, I've played it. Find it hard to get past the waterboard colors, but I did play it.

I've never said FM3 was a bad game or that it sucked, so don't get me wrong. I just said it caters to a different individual than the average GT5 gamer.

A lot of the kids who were playing NFS and Forza have gotten into that Livery editing and making your car look cool, and trading with friends thing. Then they talk crap about GT5 because it doesn't have that. They came over to GT5 thinking it was simply another Arcade racer....there are countless threads on GTPlanet of kids thinking just that, so they create threads about how hard the game is.....LOL. And how they can't GOLD a certain License or Special Event. It challenges you to DRIVE the car. They get use to that "Arcade" feel and don't know how to handle GT5, so they flame on it...lol. Just need to learn to freaking drive like real people and not crashing and hitting the rewind button to make it all better. Which is another thing I find funny. People complain about the Damage now after they requested it....lol. Damage in GT5 you can't simply back up and hit rewind. I'm so happy they decided against putting in a Rewind button in GT5.

[Dragonitti]

And all Truth Be Told, these two games shouldn't even be compared to one another. They deliver different philosophies, different experiences and cater to different demographics of gamers.

FM fans will more than most, not like GT5.

GT5 gamers will more than most, not like FM.

It's not that they are fan boys (although some exists), it's that they get two TOTALLY different experiences with them. The problem is when an FM fan seeks that experience out of GT5 and tries to slam the game because it has a completely different philosophy of development. And vice versa, some GT fan boys slam FM3 when they seek they seek the experience they get from GT5 only to come up short.

I try and make my opinions based on actual data and facts though. I race on the track on a regular basis. I like customizing my own car in real life, but as mentioned I do not want that same level of customization in GT5 like there is in FM3. I focus on racing over all else. GT5 is about racing, that's why it caters to me more because it strives to provide the same feeling I get when I'm on the real road course, rather than just simply entertaining me.

[Dragonitti]

Not that I'm taking a shot at Forza, but I just find this to be the dumbest idea and waste of time Turn10 spent pursuing.

Why on earth would you want to drive with an imaginary steering wheel? What you going to get Force Feedback from the "Air"...lol. It's about the money and entrainment first and about providing true authentic racing feel second.

[BoostJunkie]

See I don't agree on the customization, And yes a skilled person with the right tools and knowledge can do anything, and if it's a concern about certain specs for races, then it's could just go off of power to weight ratio, just like most of the others do. And once again not for all the ricey colors and graphics you can add but at the same time, who dosnt like designing there game car like their actual ride, and if you have CF hatch or roof or what ever, they don't always have that stuff, there for custom graphics=detail. But again I'm not all about the graphics but its not a bad thing.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by BoostJunkie

See I don't agree on the customization, And yes a skilled person with the right tools and knowledge can do anything, and if it's a concern about certain specs for races, then it's could just go off of power to weight ratio, just like most of the others do. And once again not for all the ricey colors and graphics you can add but at the same time, who dosnt like designing there game car like their actual ride, and if you have CF hatch or roof or what ever, they don't always have that stuff, there for custom graphics=detail. But again I'm not all about the graphics but its not a bad thing.

Then we can agree to disagree. Not everyone is skilled, not everyone has the tools and not everyone is mature to create and race in a fashion like you find on a real track.

Again, GT5 is created from the mentality of Race first and bring an immersion into automobiles while customization (in terms of coloring your ride and doing engine swaps) second.

Forza is Customize first, race second.

I'm not into that and thus do not agree on your ideology about customization.

In the real world, Race teams don't go doing RWD, AWD and engine swaps all over the place. The closest they get is Livery of their cars. But that other stuff is for pure entertainment. Real world Formula Drift rules do not allow you to convert a FWD to RWD and compete. Real life racing series have rules and regulations. This type of Free roam do whatever you want and we will just base everything on power to weight....does not exist in the real world. There is no such racing series that allows this.

[BoostJunkie]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Then we can agree to disagree. Not everyone is skilled, not everyone has the tools and not everyone is mature to create and race in a fashion like you find on a real track.

Again, GT5 is created from the mentality of Race first and bring an immersion into automobiles while customization (in terms of coloring your ride and doing engine swaps) second.

Forza is Customize first, race second.

I'm not into that and thus do not agree on your ideology about customization.

In the real world, Race teams don't go doing RWD, AWD and engine swaps all over the place. The closest they get is Livery of their cars. But that other stuff is for pure entertainment. Real world Formula Drift rules do not allow you to convert a FWD to RWD and compete. Real life racing series have rules and regulations. This type of Free roam do whatever you want and we will just base everything on power to weight....does not exist in the real world. There is no such racing series that allows this.

Really?!? Then how do you explain tanner foust scion TC.... Or the Scion Rs-R TC in Formula D?

Not to mention the Titan powered g35, or the Mult SR20 corrola's..... Need I continue?

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by BoostJunkie

Really?!? Then how do you explain tanner foust scion TC.... Or the Scion Rs-R TC in Formula D?

Not to mention the Titan powered g35, or the Mult SR20 corrola's..... Need I continue?

The Scion tC is not a FWD chassis. FWD chassis can not be converted to RWD to compete. AWD chassis are allowed conversion to RWD and of course RWD chassis compete in FD. tC gets it's chassis from the AWD Toyota Avensis.

Drifting is not racing, I said racing series that allows these. Secondly, the new rules for FD is causing a lot of the V8 swapped cars to go back to their original motors (new firewall rule).

So.....Tanner will not be running the TRD Nascar motor next season. He will be joining Ken Gushi in running the factory 2az motor from the tC...which brings it back down to earth (Ken Gushi's RSR tC was already running a factory tC motor at 600whp).

[BoostJunkie]

You say you don't mean drifting, but you stated I'n your last rebuttal

You know what I just noticed.... Where the hell is snaps today

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by BoostJunkie

You say you don't mean drifting, but you stated I'n your last rebuttal

You know what I just noticed.... Where the hell is snaps today

I did not say "I don't mean drifting". I said in my original statement was " There is no such racing series that allows this." Drifting is not a racing series. It is a motorsports series, but it is not racing. Which interesting enough is the only "motorsport" to which you can find a fraction of what Forza brings in terms of livery and engine swaps. However, even in Drifting, you are governed by rules (such as no FWD to RWD conversions).

Like I said though, GT should not be compared with FM.

[Dragonitti]

While we are on the subject:

GT5 just got a new update! v1.05 just released.

http://www.gtplanet.net/gran-turismo...available-now/

So, if you don't mind, I'll excuse myself while I check out the new goodies which are:

The latest update to Gran Turismo 5, version 1.05, was made available just a few hours ago and weighs in at 608MB. Here’s a quick, official summary of all the new changes, but users are discovering a few more new tweaks in our forums as well:

• Seasonal Events: [Seasonal Events] have been added to the [GT Mode] – [GT Life] screen. From here you can participate in official online events from the Polyphony Digital team. In these events, all participants are under the same regulations, and if you complete the event you will win rewards and experience. Compete on the leader boards with players around the world, in Time Trials and Drift Trials!
• Online Collector’s Dealership: An [Online Collector's Dealership] has been added to the left and centre of the [GT Mode]-[GT Life] screen. In here you will find popular and rare cars. You might just come across that one car you’ve always been looking for, that you haven’t been able to find in the [Used Car Dealership].
• Online Race Rewards and Experience: When you complete a race in the [Open Lobby] or [My Lounge], you will now gain rewards and experience points. Even if you are focused more on playing online, you’ll still be able to gain rewards and levels that you need to progress in [GT Life].
• Driving Distance and Number of Wins in Online Races: The driving distance and the number of wins you achieve when you complete a race in [Open Lobby] or [My Lounge] will now affect your stats in [Profile] and the [Garage]. Here the results from your online play will cumulate within [GT Life].
• Improved Rewards: The rewards for winning races in both A-Spec and B-Spec in [GT Mode]-[GT Life] have been increased for a limited time only. (This applies until the end of January 2011.) This is a great chance for those who were previously having difficulties getting ahead in the game, due to a lack of funds for tuning and purchasing required cars.
• Race Information Display: It is now possible to set the [Race Info Display] in [Start]-[Quick Options]. (You can also set this in [Race Display] in [Options]).
• Save Data Backup: You can now copy and restore your save data. For details, please refer to the in-game [Manual].
• User BGM (Menu): From [Options]-[Hardware]-[Audio Settings], it is now possible to set the [User BGM] (Menu)]. (This can also be set from the [Music Library] within [GT Mode]).
• Car Name Change: The official name of “Red Bull X1″ has been changed to the “Red Bull X2010″.
• Integration with the Website: The main features within [GT Mode]-[Community] can now also be accessed through the “gran-turismo.com” official website.
• [Important Note:] We have made improvements to the [Log] within [GT Mode]- [Community] section, in order to make its operation more stable. Please note that the information that was contained here from before the update has been reset.

MORE UPDATES:

• The license test menus have been streamlined. After winning a bronze or silver trophy, for example, you have the option to immediately restart the test without having to sit through the animation sequence. (Thanks, Alex.)
• GT Academy USA has now been listed in the new Seasonal Events (I’m writing up a full post on this now).
• Mechanical damage has now been implemented in the game’s “Practice Mode” – the first time the feature has been usable outside of the custom online events.

One interesting thing to note is that today, December 20th, was set to be the launch date of the US GT Academy. However, as of writing there is no mention of this in the latest update, though presumably it may appear in the new “Seasonal Events” later. Stay tuned for more, and thanks to all who sent this in so quickly!

The Section in bold is the series they started where the winner of the region (south, east, north, west) will go on to compete for a chance at becoming a real world team racing driver.