2015 Series.Blue Engine "Chirp"and 2nd Gear Grind

[s30series]

Originally Posted by Speed2th

my stock 2015 series blue transmission had no issue so far (1600 miles). the transmission smooth out after break in period. could be your shortthrow mod cause the issue?

Just a standard kart boy shifter. Lots of people have them, not sure how that could affect it?

[Speed2th]

sorry i am just throwing you a possibility. i came across this article, it may or may not related to our cars.
http://www.rsgear.com/blog/2011/5/23...-failures.aspx

"
An area that creates more transmission issues is the shifter. It is common to install a "short throw shifter" into a manual trans equipped vehicle. The shifter is designed to shorten the amount of movement in the stock shifter making the shifts happen quicker. There are many excellent short throw shifters on the market and they do improve the shift sequence. However the driver needs to understand that the time it takes to shift is predicated on how fast the synchronizer can complete the shift without gear clash. When you shorten the throw of the shifter it is possible for the driver to be moving the stick faster than the clutch can fully release, and before the synchronizer can complete the function of matching the input shaft speed to the output shaft speed. This results in grinding or blocked out shifts as the timing has been altered for the function of the components. Another issue we have seen over the years is the lack of vibration deadening construction on some aftermarket shifters. The auto manufacturers spend a fortune trying to isolate the interior of the car from all outside noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH). Some aftermarket shifters will create a "buzz" from the stick, or other noises not heard or felt with the factory stick. In any case a short throw shifter will complicate transmission failure due to a poor clutch release or out of time synchronization.

Click on image to see more

The art of synchronization is poorly understood by most drivers. The synchronizer is like a zipper. Everyone knows how to use it, but few understand how it really works. The basic understanding begins with the design of the manual transmission. We have an input shaft that is splined to the clutch disc and transfers torque (rotational force)from the engine crankshaft into the gear box. The input shaft is in line with and rides on the nose of the mainshaft (output shaft) of the transmission, but can turn independently from the mainshaft. The gear end of the input shaft meshes with a countershaft or cluster gear that is mounted parallel to the input and output shafts in the transmission case. This drives the cluster gear, which has multiple gears on it, that mesh with the speed gears mounted on the mainshaft. The speed gears are free- wheeling on the mainshaft. Then we have the synchronizer assemblies that are splined to the main shaft between the speed gears. All of the speed gears which include the input gear have a second set of teeth on them which engage the sliding sleeve on the synchronizer assembly. When a shift is made the shift fork slides onto the engagement teeth of the speed gear and that gear is now attached to the mainshaft and transmits power from the input through the cluster gear and back into the mainshaft driving the wheels of the vehicle. On a 6 speed transmission you will have a 1-2 synchronizer, a 3-4 synchronizer, a 5-6-reverse synchronizer. If the synchronizer sleeves are all centered the transmission is in neutral. The synchronizer must have a way to engage the spinning gear without grinding. Between the synchronizer hub and the speed gear is the synchronizer ring (blocking ring) and a single or multiple set of cones that are attached to the speed gear. The synchro ring or rings turn with the synchronizer and are located in position by keys or struts that sit in the synchronizer body and move with the sliding sleeve. As the driver moves the shift lever to select a gear, the synchro keys force the synchro ring or rings onto the machined cone of the speed gear, slowing it down or speeding it up to match the speed of the output shaft which is being rotated by the drive shaft. With the clutch depressed, the input gear is now rotating at engine rpm, which is considerably slower than the output shaft if you have a proper clutch release. The synchro ring can rotate slightly within the sliding sleeve and the teeth do not line up with the engagement teeth on the speed gear. When the shaft speeds equalize, the ring will move in a circular motion enough for the sliding sleeve to completely engage the speed gear and complete the shift. This is why they are also called blocking rings as the block the sleeve from full engagement until the speed gear and shaft are at the same rpm, so the shift is completed without grinding. None of this will work unless the clutch can fully release and disconnect the torque from the crankshaft to the input. If you do not have that disconnect of the powerflow, you are now trying to stop or slow 400 plus foot lbs of torque in the motor with a small friction surface that may be 3 or 4 inches in diameter and ¼ to ½ inch wide. This immediately damages the friction material of the ring, and can shear of the synchronizer keys like a guillotine. Once that happens you will have blocked out or grinding shifts as the sliding sleeve clashes with the engagement teeth on the speed gear. Up shifts require a lot less synchronizer effort than down shifts. Drivers who wish to slow the gear box down by using the transmission find out that brakes are a lot cheaper than transmissions. Careful shifting, particularly on down shifts, prevent a shift from 5th to 1st which is really hard on the trans and engine. Rev limiters in modern

[Zyo81]

My car did that too OP, just as you describe, mid-high rpms 2nd shifted great, low rpms were notchy/crunchy, sometimes just grindy, and when car was not warmed up (and i mean trans warmed up by driving distance not just engine temp.) sometimes would refuse 2nd altogether. 3rd was minorly affected.

This started around 280 miles. I've had the dealer tell me multiple times that it's a "high performance transmission so that is normal", of course refused to put that in writing. Even though I love this car and waited 4 years for it to come out, I was ready to trade it in on something else. I was upside down in the car so I decided to wait. While I waited to catch up, around 16k the trans stopped having issues. Occasionally 2nd will be stubborn to get into when cold, but it happens so rare and I've gotten better at "trouble shifting" that I'm going to keep it and I'm glad finances had me wait. I love this car. That being said, I make them document every little mishap when I go in for service so there is a record of this.

By the way, no mods completely stock 2013 FRS with 21,300 miles.

[sluflyer06]

Originally Posted by zc06_kisstherain

1. people don't want stealership to touch their car
2. people don't want to waste their valuable time

i never seen a single car that 100% perfect transmission in my life even i drove my friends cars in past and now. if it's minor issue, i just deal with it.
everyone think and maintain car differently.

OP, since your is new new, i would just visit dealer and inform them you're having issue with gear grinding.

questionable choice in cars? How can every car you've driven have transmissino problems? I've had 8 cars in the last 14 years, only 1 of which had any issues and it was a 01' 1.8T Jetta which basically i'd killed most of the synchro's on while I had it, though I never was forced to fix it.

[s30series]

Originally Posted by Zyo81

My car did that too OP, just as you describe, mid-high rpms 2nd shifted great, low rpms were notchy/crunchy, sometimes just grindy, and when car was not warmed up (and i mean trans warmed up by driving distance not just engine temp.) sometimes would refuse 2nd altogether. 3rd was minorly affected.

This started around 280 miles. I've had the dealer tell me multiple times that it's a "high performance transmission so that is normal", of course refused to put that in writing. Even though I love this car and waited 4 years for it to come out, I was ready to trade it in on something else. I was upside down in the car so I decided to wait. While I waited to catch up, around 16k the trans stopped having issues. Occasionally 2nd will be stubborn to get into when cold, but it happens so rare and I've gotten better at "trouble shifting" that I'm going to keep it and I'm glad finances had me wait. I love this car. That being said, I make them document every little mishap when I go in for service so there is a record of this.

By the way, no mods completely stock 2013 FRS with 21,300 miles.

Thats good to know. Its already getting better with the new transmision fluid as time and miles go by. Probbaly 1/10 is "notchy" now at low RPM (i should not have said grind orginally).

[zc06_kisstherain]

Originally Posted by sluflyer06

questionable choice in cars? How can every car you've driven have transmissino problems? I've had 8 cars in the last 14 years, only 1 of which had any issues and it was a 01' 1.8T Jetta which basically i'd killed most of the synchro's on while I had it, though I never was forced to fix it.

maybe older cars had good transmission.
my statement came from personal experience and my friends as well
i drove RSX-S, Miata, S2000, 350z, 370z, STI, EVO that includes my friends cars and they all had minor gear grind problem. maybe i wasn't lucky and you were lucky who knows.

[radroach]

I think the car relies a bit on it's slugger, slightly long throws and a bit of play in the mounts to give a smooth shift. So the kartboy shifter combined with the rear mount might be causing the issue to be more prevalent.

Shifts will either go in perfectly when timed right with the right pressure and play in the system, time it wrong and you'll get a stiff feeling shift or a crunch.

[sluflyer06]

Originally Posted by zc06_kisstherain

maybe older cars had good transmission.
my statement came from personal experience and my friends as well
i drove RSX-S, Miata, S2000, 350z, 370z, STI, EVO that includes my friends cars and they all had minor gear grind problem. maybe i wasn't lucky and you were lucky who knows.

wow grind with a STI trans? I swapped a new 06 MY sti trans into my wrx after I cleaned the teeth off 3rd gear in my 5 speed with almost to 400wtq on a 20g though that 5 speed was problem free until I started making way too much power. the 6 speed is just a beast, that trans saw near redline dumps wiht a 6 puck and 3076r turbo setups at the track and was just beautiful.

rsx-s...those trans were def a joke, friend had one and it grinded almost from the it rolled off the lot and was told "its normal".

I agree the EVO stuff is also hit and miss, they don't seem to take abuse very well without re-shimming and fixing all the tolerance issues from teh factory but then they're typically good.

[Wepeel]

Never had any grinds in any gears since I've had the car, 1+ year, 17k miles. Definitely take it in.

[Ubersuber]

Originally Posted by HeadBanger

I also have a 2nd gear issue. Not so much a grind, but it's really notchy. I can't really "speed shift"/"power shift" second because it seems to hang up.
I'm not sure if switching fluids will fix my issue. I hate to waste the money on changing the fluid and the problem still being there, then subaru fixing the tranny anyways.

I experienced this recently. Wet road, dropped clutch in first, mega wheelspin (duh) and when I tried to shift to second the transmission baulked the shift completely, would not go in. No crunch or clash, just baulked. Car drove perfectly normally since.

Otherwise I have the elsewhere reported very stiff shift from 1 to 2 in winter until the box warms a little and no other issues.

Transmission definitely gets smoother as miles accumulate. I'm only at 9,000 km (5,500 miles) and it is already better (engine is too).

[Scooter Style]

Remove the rear perrin shifter bushing. I bet the problem gets better. Same problem with mine. Warranty got me a new transmission with the same damn problem, too out the perrin shifter bushing and it went away.

[_j_anthony]

As of Today(Labor Day in the US) I've had my car for 14 weeks and my gear box did this when I was in my first 2,000 miles. Also to avoid grinding gear, even if your foot is depressing the clutch, shift with purpose. If you shift slowly gears will grind.

[DieselDog]

Originally Posted by HeadBanger

I never noticed it until I went to the track the first time. Shift hard/fast and you might feel it.


I even have the notchyness sometimes when I park and try to put it into second.

Well with only 3000km on the car I wouldn't be beating on it as that isnt a good idea.

I don't track my car or ever plan too.

When you shift fast and hard you get notchy gear selections in a $26,000 car?

This isn't really a car that is made to be pushed hard.. The advertising just makes you think that.

The price point tells you just how well made it is. I wouldn't expect much from it and I don't.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DieselDog

Well with only 3000km on the car I wouldn't be beating on it as that isnt a good idea.

I don't track my car or ever plan too.

When you shift fast and hard you get notchy gear selections in a $26,000 car?

This isn't really a car that is made to be pushed hard.. The advertising just makes you think that.

The price point tells you just how well made it is. I wouldn't expect much from it and I don't.

Funny, my smoothest shifts come at 7,400 rpm, the car feels the best when wringing it out at the track imo, I know I'm not alone in that opinion.

Nobody is stopping you from driving it like a Camry, but I heartily disagree that it was made for that.

The chirps are the last thing on my mind at 100 mph.