Dealers

[W2]

Originally Posted by Deepmist

I hear you, I've been shopping for a car about half a year now, I'm trying to get a FRS now. I hate dealers. I've had at least 3 experiences where I contact a dealer, tell them I want to buy a car and just never hear anything back.

Same issue here. I emailed 6 different dealers, called a couple more. Only 2 responded and they weren't exactly helpful. I wonder if they even know this car is being released.

Last month I was trying to buy a 2013 Genesis Coupe and ran into the same issue. I have a check sitting here from my bank plus a nice down payment. I swear none of these dealers are interested in selling me a car, even when I walk in ready to put down a deposit.

[Exhaust]

While everyone is tripping about deposit and pricing. I was pissed at the fact that the dealer claimed it was a "fast car" boasting "260hp". Fucking great, the future for us FRS owners looks oh so promising.

[W2]

Originally Posted by Exhaust

While everyone is tripping about deposit and pricing. I was pissed at the fact that the dealer claimed it was a "fast car" boasting "260hp". Fucking great, the future for us FRS owners looks oh so promising.

When I was shopping for the gen coupe I had the same issue, I literally argued on the phone with a guy about interior colors and then another guy about cruise control while sitting in the car! One guy was not interested in selling me a 2.0T because it was not fast enough for me.

Today I argued on the phone with a few dealers about the FR-S, some didn't even know what I was talking about.

Just now I got an OTD price of a hair under $29,000 plus they wanted a $500 non-refundable deposit. Sales tax is only 3% here on new cars and the MSRP was $25,094 and the doc fee was $299.50. The car had floor mats as the only option. While the dealer down the road was $26,200 OTD but couldn't get the color I wanted until the next batch comes in. They actually stepped up and tried for a week to get me the car too. I'll probably just wait it out and stick with them.

[raphymartinez]

I hate when people have experiences like this, I've been in the car business for nine years and can't stand when that happens. But please understand we are not all like that and not all dealerships are like that. I printed out your complete post and will be reading it in our Saturday morning meeting to all my sales people so they remember how not to be

btw, what Avalon is only 23k? did u mean 33k?

[feedbag]

Without naming the dealer we gain absolutely nothing from reading your post.

[Moto-P]

Rather than posting, well, actually regardless, I think you should contact Toyota National HQ as they are the ones who need to really hear this, and devise a way to correct such disrespectful approach to selling cars.

Here's the contact information for reaching Toyota Corporate Customer Care:

Phone: 800-331-4331
Fax: 310-468-7814
Mon - Fri, 5:00 am - 6:00 pm PST
Sat, 7:00 am - 4:00 pm PST


Now, as for sales of cars in general, in the USA, the dealers are independent, unlike in Japan, and while most are trained on a pretty comprehensive guidelines of Toyota's excellent sales guideline manuals, some dealers, especially those remotely situated choose to not use this, or distort it.

Just for clarification, Scion's "PURE PRICE" is simply a 30 days FIX on an advertised price. It is not a FIX on MSRP sale. So if the dealer says, advertises, or mentions in any way a certain price, high or low, they must honor that for every customer, for 30 days. It also means if that dealer decided to LOWER the heavily marked up price, he isn't allowed to do so for 30 days since he first marked it up. This means, even if he will LOSE that customer to another dealer who was willing to sell for less.

Because of this, areas with more competing dealers will not mark up most of SCION models, and this is true for even the overly demanded FRS. The dealers will gain more from moving the FRS as much as possible so they can be allocated more of them in the next shipment. Dealers who "hoard" and price gouge any SCION and move less of them, will suffer from getting less of them in the future.

When this happens, their ONLY method of getting more FRS will be to do a "dealer trade" where they would ship another car to a dealer who has the FRS available, at whatever asking price of the dealer who has them. Doing this though, makes the original dealer's cost of the FRS much greater, as MOST dealers won't want to trade an FRS for anything with customers of their own waiting. IN the case of combined scenario of dealer trade and PURE PRICE to customers, the offending dealer has to make a choice of losing cash on the sale by doing a trade, or simply stuck not being able to sell the FRS till his next allocation, if there are any... Toyota's policy therefore makes a natural selection of best dealers getting the best stock, and penalizes offending dealers his ability to sell a popular product item.

So all this mark up game does not benefit the dealership for the FRS or any SCION products, nor the customers who visit the dealers who are not any longer, best equipped to sell the FRS.

My suggestions to you, therefore, is to go to a dealership who DOES follow the guidelines, and who do sell a LOT of SCIONS because of them following how they should sell, according to the manual by Toyota HQ. They will be happy to offer you great deals on the FRS, and are just happy to MOVE them out of the lot and into your garage as more they do this, the more they can allocate themselves more SCIONs including the FRS.

Most dealers in the USA will also arrange for reasonable shipping as well. And proper dealers who do this, usually keep a very orderly list of interested buyers, and usually by $500 REFUNDABLE deposits, so they can hold you interest of color and transmission choice. Many times, shipping a car from one of Largest volume dealers in California is comparable or cheaper than asking premiums for rural areas of the US. And they are fully capable of handing shipment, title in your state, and all taxes, and more importantly, getting it faster, with much larger allocations they have over a dealer who can't move Scion. For example, Longo Scion and Penske Scion in southern CA, moves about 19,000 Toyota vehicles per year, and they would have that much more chunk of allocations for all Toyota cars. Also, because the FRS to the best dealers are ALLOCATED, they have the exact VIN numbers and colors/transmission, and how many, and expected date of arrival, unlike a dealer who has to resort to trade, who can't get any definite information on any FRS beyond their small allocation. It is also pertinent to speak to a fleet manager class sales person when calling so complex sale of remote purchase requirements are explained properly and made easy for a buyer, as floor sales person may not be able to handle such requests proficiently, but are working on bonus structures... A properly managed dealer operations are always equipped to handle this, and teams of sales people will always be working in good order to direct each customers to the properly trained person if he/she is not capable and to handle each order well.

I hope this helps... And hopefully, the dealers where you visited will be corrected by your report to Toyota HQ for the better for all Toyota fans here.

[DP]

Hello,

Thanks for the meaningful info. The dealer in question is in an area with 1 million people and is a very heavy advertiser and is located on a major intersate. So I "assume" he moves a reasonable # of cars.

I was pretty sure they knew what was coming in and when, that is why I was so pissed off. This dealer or at least the floor help seem to work on a "money today" sales model and I doubt that a salesman gets anything on a deposit until the sale is completed.

Given the turnover rate in cars salesman, most of them probably don't figure they will be at that dealership in 4-6 weeks, so why screw with a customer that they will never benefit from...or so it seems.

DP

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by DP

Hello,

Thanks for the meaningful info. The dealer in question is in an area with 1 million people and is a very heavy advertiser and is located on a major intersate. So I "assume" he moves a reasonable # of cars.

I was pretty sure they knew what was coming in and when, that is why I was so pissed off. This dealer or at least the floor help seem to work on a "money today" sales model and I doubt that a salesman gets anything on a deposit until the sale is completed.

Given the turnover rate in cars salesman, most of them probably don't figure they will be at that dealership in 4-6 weeks, so why screw with a customer that they will never benefit from...or so it seems.

DP

To a certain extent you're right, and most salespeople not only don't stick around long but aren't trained on customer retention. I'll admit, even I get lazy about calling some people back after their first visit if I don't think they're genuinely interested. I do my best, but if I don't have a strong feeling it can be hard to motivate me. And I don't get 2-3 customer opportunities a day, so I really need to maximize my 3-5 opportunities I get in a week. In your case though, someone should have been ready to find you all the information possible, because in a month's time they could be not only getting a nice commission from your sale, but establishing a good customer-dealer relationship which could result in referral business and/or repeat business!

[DP]

Hello,

I'm sure it's a tough business and you do it for a living and I don't, but I'll give you tip anyway.

If a 50 year old guy shows up during normal m-f work hours, with this wife, to look at a new and relatively cheap sports car, you may want to try and work with him. I bet he has other things to do and if the wife shows up and doesn't have negative things to say, it is probably a sale.

DP

[CountChoculitis]

Originally Posted by DP

Hello,

I will not name this dealer and I admit I have had some really bad experiences with new car dealers. But I always expect to be treated like a person about to spend thousands of dollars, hope springs eternal.

My local dealer has a FR-S on display. I'm a 50 year old guy who can afford a new car and I intend to buy a new FR-S, but new car dealers really tick me off. They all seem to be know nothing, are only interested in getting your money right now and then going moving on to the next customer (victim).

Visit One:

Met at the door and politely escorted to the display car. Told it was one of the 86 winners so it was locked up ( fair enough ). Salesman shows up, yea their taking orders, $5000 deposit (non refundable ) up front. Has no other info except that there will be some cars in the future.

No info on colors, etc... He informs me that none of the potential FR-S's are spoken for and they have no deposits. But the "inventory control manager" would be in later, he takes my contact info and says he will call me with more info. No call.

Visit Two:

Wife and I made our way to the car, another salesman shows up and informs me that this particular car was the first one in the USA and they had been chosen to display it (this is about 2 weeks after the first deliveries, I believe).

Am I on the list? What list I ask, the interested buyer list he says. So he takes my contact info, again, and checks the list, I'm not on it. So I add my name, BTW this FR-S has been on display for 6-7 days and I'm only number 5 on the list. As I'm filling out he list he informs me that this is a really fast car with 260 hp. I correct him and he suddenly remembers the truth.

He goes on to tell me that when the cars come in they will send out an email blast.

So in short, they don't follow up with serious buyers. They know nothing or what they know is wrong. As a serious buyer they intend to contact me not with a phone call or an offer to test drive the FR-S, but with an email blast. I don't even know what that is, should I duck?

As we are leaving my wife stops and looks at a Yaris which is like 3/4 of a small car. She starts asking me questions about a car I wouldn't pay the sales tax on, but within ear shot is another salesman leaning on the showroom glass window, texting, he never looked up.

As for the pricing, the FR-S is just a car, by the pound it requires no more or less machining, painting, etc... than any other Subaru. A fully equipped Toyota Avalon was on display in the same showroom. It would make at least 2 FR-S's, it was 23K, the FR-S is 25-7K with much less equipment. Seems this is what the market will bear pricing.

I wish my experience had been different, but it seems all car dealers are the same.

Hopefully an FR-S owner soon.

DP

First of all:
I want to tell you that the way you are treated is direct reflection your attitude. Sales people make money selling, they sell by treating you right, so think about it. Why would they treat you like garbage if you didn't ask them too with your attitude?

I sell Toyotas and Scions. And I can tell you there has been almost no training or info on the FR-S passed on to us. So if your dealer isn't into the car, then they prolly don't sit on here reading about it all day like we do. It's not their fault they haven't gotten any info on it yet.

Next, we meet a lot of people everyday. It can sometimes be a hassle to remember every single one. Your first sales person may have gotten caught up in a sale, which can take hours as I'm sure you know, after you and not had a chance to add you, then forgot. It happens, it doesn't make them a shitty person.

You also have to understand it from their point of view. You came in asking about a car that he doesn't know anything about, [because it's not out yet] to include when it will be available for you to drive or buy. And as far as the $5k deposit - thats because they most likely get a lot of kids or whatever that ask about it and want to lead the store on and waste their time, so they put a rediculous deposit amount on it so that only someone who is truly serious will bother. - Personally I don't agree with this, but that's prolly why they said that.

There were a couple other things in there that were pretty annoying/offense to read but, the last thing I'll mention is the thing about the Avalon.

I have never seen an Avalon, much less a "fully equipped" Avalon for that price. If you really saw a loaded Avalon for that price, you better go back and buy it like, yesterday, because it's worth about $40,000.






Got my flame suit on.

[DP]

First, I was excited when I saw they even had a FR-S, I had expected to just talk to knowledge person, sales manager, etc... So, I don't think my demeanor was poor but I could be wrong.

Either way you are defending two sales people that lost a sure sale for themselves and probably for the dealership as a whole. I've never had a problem buying a car before but maybe I'm just old and cranky now.

As for the Avalon, yea you right, I don't what I saw on the sticker that made me think it was 23k. It appeared to be a new car sticker, but clearly a new Avalon is more than that.

DP

[Capt Canuck]

Originally Posted by DP

... I've never had a problem buying a car before but maybe I'm just old and cranky now...

Unfortunately, them the breaks and yes, yes you are
Like 1 hotel reviewers on TripAdvisor, joining up a forum just to whinge about a less that stellar experience tends not to garner loads of sympathy. No one took your money or swindled you, you just wasted some time out of a couple of your days.

I hope if you do track down a good dealer and have a good experience, you return to the forum to tell us about it and help direct consumers somewhere positive.

[DP]

I have been lurking for several years, I just never had anything to say before.

In fact I have been amazed at how much has been said over the last 3 years by people that seemingly didn't have anymore info than was available to everyone else.

As for the car, I'm way past looking for sympathy, I was just wondering if my experience was typical. Based on your response and some of the others it sounds about 50-50.

Odds are in my favor, there is a subby dealer about a mile from the Toyota guy. Never considered myself a Subaru guy, but it is same car. I'm sure some dealer will take my check...but then that just seems to piss of the F & I guy when he discovers I don't want to finance or buy any of his goods.

DP

[Bristecom]

I would never put down a non-refundable desposit. That is crazy.

I used to work for a dealer and yes, nobody but me really knew about the new cars and they would often try to play mind games with the customers. It's all about trying to get as much money from them as possible rather than working hard to meet their wants and needs and being well educated to answer their questions.