GM's treatment of this issue really sucks...

[calmtigers]

Originally Posted by Rampage

They "bribed" the DOJ to the tune of 1.2B USD to make it go away. They just paid many of the owners of early drive by wire model Toyotas a settlement amount. If there wasn't an issue would they have done that?



The GM allegations are still speculation too. Nothing yet definitively proven.



Again, I am not defending GM. I am just struck by the amount of "hate" of GM that seems to be so popular on import car forums while other car companies who have also had mass recalls and received government subsidies or were once partially owned by the government of their home country are so revered.

Actually I owned the year corolla that had the issues, they didn't do anything but cut the carpets back a little. There might have been some serious pedal stuff but damn that car took everything I put to it otherwise. He'll I could have drove that thing until I was an old man easily

[ClifraJones]

Originally Posted by calmtigers

Actually I owned the year corolla that had the issues, they didn't do anything but cut the carpets back a little. There might have been some serious pedal stuff but damn that car took everything I put to it otherwise. He'll I could have drove that thing until I was an old man easily

I've owned successive corollas before my FRS. Including the period with the alleged issue with no problems. I never took it in for the issue. There was never any proof the issue existed and at least one hoax that I know of. Funny how this issue was brought to light at the height of GM bailout when Toyota was dominating the market. Coincidence/conspiracy? I dunno! All I know is I've owned Toyota all my adult life, I'm 57, and they have never let me down.



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[ZDan]

Originally Posted by soundman98

comparatively, the gm issue has had something like 13 definitive deaths linked to the issue(or were some of those speculative as well?), where toyota had zero deaths, but a major PR fiasco.

at the time, i took the whole payoff thing as toyota saying "yes, yes, you're morons, but take some money and leave us alone"...

I think there may be more deaths from Toyota's throttle pedal. including an ex-highway patrol officer and his family (4 in one go).

The *initial* NASA study found no prob with the throttle, but subsequently it was found that "tin whiskering" caused intermittent shorts that caused the problems. No idea why that hasn't become public knowledge. People still seem to think it's a "driver error" thing, but this is/was a VERY REAL problem.

I learned about this while working at MIT. Tin whiskering is a HUGE problem in the era of lead-free solder. Have to take steps to mitigate risk. We would often have to disassemble commercially available electronics we wanted to use and have the boards coated for sensitive instruments where very high reliability is required.

http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/referen...app-sensor.pdf

[robwbright]

Originally Posted by robwbright

No particular hate for GM - technically speaking, my soon to be sold 2006 Saab 9-3 is a GM product. Other than burning out a headlight every 3 months, we haven't had any problems with it from purchase in '09 to the present.

I take that back... I just remembered the window problem. Pretty sure this was an issue with the G6 as well.

The windows quit working - wouldn't go up and down and went off track. Went to fix them and discovered that they were using a metal cable with a nylon wheel/roller to move the window up and down.

Metal, being harder than nylon, ate through the nylon wheel and caused the problem. This occurred at about 80,000 miles.

Ridiculous design, IMO. But it's possible that other companies use a similar design and I just haven't had occasion to deal with it. Apparently not Honda, though, as I've owned a couple Hondas well past 100k and never had a window issue like that.

[robwbright]

More info and commentary. Immunity and more problems caused by government intervention.

http://reason.com/archives/2014/03/2...ts-of-am/print

"The GM bailout, which ultimately cost U.S. taxpayers more than $10 billion, is the gift that keeps on giving to the auto giant. Unless courts overturn that immunity, many victims of GM's delayed response in recalling cars with faulty ignition switches will recover few damages."

"One reason for the lapse is GM's disarray at the time. But another is that the 2000 Transportation Recall Enhancement, Accountability and Documentation Act created a perverse incentive for automakers to refrain from fully airing safety concerns internally — the exact opposite of its purpose."

"A liability shield isn't unusual in bankruptcy cases, notes George Mason University's Todd Zywicki, but what is unusual is that GM and Chrysler, which also filed for bankruptcy protection, weren't required to put money in special trust funds for prospective victims.... Instead, the corporate giants can treat injured customers as shabbily as unsecured creditors."

"Car owners aren't the only ones hurt by the bailout deal. GM's competitors are being harmed, too.

For example, notes Center for Automotive Research's Sean McAlinden, the shield gives GM an unfair competitive advantage. GM saves close to $300 million in annual product-liability claims because it is on the hook for a fewer of them. And this is on top of the lower debt-service costs and special post-bankruptcy tax write-offs that GM received through the bailout that its competitors don't."

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I think there may be more deaths from Toyota's throttle pedal. including an ex-highway patrol officer and his family (4 in one go).

The *initial* NASA study found no prob with the throttle, but subsequently it was found that "tin whiskering" caused intermittent shorts that caused the problems. No idea why that hasn't become public knowledge. People still seem to think it's a "driver error" thing, but this is/was a VERY REAL problem.

I learned about this while working at MIT. Tin whiskering is a HUGE problem in the era of lead-free solder. Have to take steps to mitigate risk. We would often have to disassemble commercially available electronics we wanted to use and have the boards coated for sensitive instruments where very high reliability is required.

http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/referen...app-sensor.pdf

thanks! i really had no idea... so glad i stick to the leaded solder! forget RoHS compliance!!

i can only suspect that the media didn't publicize that info because it was too difficult to get average consumers to understand tin whiskering.. i didn't know pure tin did that...