Total noob tire-change question

[Guff]

+1 on using jackstands.

I too had learned of an acquaintance's death because of a failed jack, and that's enough to convince me for sure. I use jackstands every time I lift the car...

[neutron256]

I've never heard of anyone dying changing a tire when the jack failed. Working under the car is a different story and I would never do that without jackstands.

[Snoopyalien24]

Wow bookmarked this thread. Thanks guys, I am a total noob aswell

[Sport-Tech]

Thanks for all the responses, sounds more complicated than I anticipated. My condo management prohibits maintenance work being done in the garage, and I have no place to store a large hydraulic lift. Small jack stands and a small jack might fit in my locker. Have to check CT.

How much does a dealer/shop charge for changing the tires? Problem with that option (besides transport - not convinced 4 wheels are going to fit) is that shops often don't use torque spec at all and use a generic impact wrench that over-torques leading to warped rotors over time.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Ryephile

Get yourself a quality jack and set of jackstands, along with some bits of wood and hockey pucks. I've been impressed with the jack from Tire Rack, and most any steel pyramid-shaped jack-stand with a 3 ton+ rating will be perfect. Get 4 of them for bigger maintenance work. Protect the chassis from the jack and 'stands with pieces of wood and/or hockey pucks. Get yourself a good [long] 1/2" drive breaker bar, and a good 1/2" drive torque wrench.

Remember to ONLY lift the chassis from designated "hard points" noted in the service and/or owners manual. These typically include the unibody side sill pinch-weld rail and subframe mounting bolt points. NEVER lift the car from suspension arms or floor-pan.

Thanks - a noob followup or two:

Why would I need a long breaker bar if I get a long torque wrench like this? Wouldn't a short 3" extension to just clear the wheel outer edge be sufficient?

Why a 3-ton jack - I am only lifting 1/2 of a 2700 lb car at a time, the 2 ton Michelin looks like it would be fine.

I am also wondering about putting hockey pucks on top of the jack stands - wouldn't any imbalance caused by imperfect load centering on the jacks cause problems? And the Michelin jack stands I see on the CTire web site have solid rubber padding already to prevent scratching.

[Sport-Tech]

For wheel changing, which of these 3 procedures should be used?

1. Jack up car near front wheel, place front jack stand just beside jack. Then jack up same side near rear wheel, place rear jack stand beside jack. Remove jack and change wheels. Reverse process for lowering.

2. Jack up in middle of side rail, high enough to put jack stands near front and rear wheels, lower jack and change tires.

3 Jack up near front wheel, put in stand, lower jack and change front tire. Remove stand. Repeat for back tire.

[Want.FR-S]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

Thanks for all the responses, sounds more complicated than I anticipated. My condo management prohibits maintenance work being done in the garage, and I have no place to store a large hydraulic lift. Small jack stands and a small jack might fit in my locker. Have to check CT.

How much does a dealer/shop charge for changing the tires? Problem with that option (besides transport - not convinced 4 wheels are going to fit) is that shops often don't use torque spec at all and use a generic impact wrench that over-torques leading to warped rotors over time.

Just a quick reply. Cdn tire charge 40 bucks for seasonal tire change. Dealershipay charge extra. Some shops can stir the tires for you as well. Check around.

[Want.FR-S]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

Thanks - a noob followup or two:

Why would I need a long breaker bar if I get a long torque wrench like this? Wouldn't a short 3" extension to just clear the wheel outer edge be sufficient?

Why a 3-ton jack - I am only lifting 1/2 of a 2700 lb car at a time, the 2 ton Michelin looks like it would be fine.

I am also wondering about putting hockey pucks on top of the jack stands - wouldn't any imbalance caused by imperfect load centering on the jacks cause problems? And the Michelin jack stands I see on the CTire web site have solid rubber padding already to prevent scratching.

Torque wrench is used to tied up the nuts. When you want to loose it you need extra torque to loose it. Torque is made based on force times length. So if you do not have large force, you need length to create torque. Thus you need long breaker bar.

3 ton lift is better because it can lift more with and higher. A 2 ton lift can probably lift 20 inches or so. It does not work with SUV or trucks.

[Want.FR-S]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

For wheel changing, which of these 3 procedures should be used?

3 Jack up near front wheel, put in stand, lower jack and change front tire. Remove stand. Repeat for back tire.

this is my idea, and I welcome if anyone can provide a better idea.

You change one tire at a time. The procedures are:

1. While tire is on the ground, loosen all the nuts but not totally unscrew them
2. Find the point to put jack stand for that wheel and jack up the car until the wheel is totally off the ground and a bit higher
3. Put the stand besides the jack and lower the jack so that the car can rest on the stand. Note this is where I prefer car jack. I can lower it gradually so no jerking around. With hydraulic jack, the release is sudden and it could hurt the stand or moving.
4. Now unscrew all the nuts and see if you can get the wheel off.
5. Put new tire on and screw the nuts based on the star Pattern. Just tie it enough.
6. Use car jack to lift it so that you can remove the stand and lower the car so that the tire touches the ground. With jack still on, tighten all the nuts based on the torque setting and with star pattern.
7. Once done lower the jack and move onto the next tire.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Quality hydraulic jack is where it's at. I bought a heavy steel jack Made in America rather than a Made in China jack you can find anywhere. You can get a blingy aluminum jack that's much lighter, but aluminum costs more money.

With a quality hydraulic jack there is a valve mechanism linked to where you insert the jack handle. In my case the jack handle is a 5ft steel tube keyed on one end to fit into the hydraulic mechanism. The resistance (if that's the proper term) of the valve is tied to clockwise/counterclockwise turns of the mechanism, accomplished with the jack handle. Thus, it's very easy to slowly set the car down after jacking it up and putting jackstands underneath. I have a friend with a Craftsman jack (Made in China FYI) that uses the screwdriver method...I say FUCK that for precisely the reason you outlined: it's SUDDEN.

Working even partially underneath a car is dangerous. It's a 3000lb steel death trap for fuck's sake.

Originally Posted by Guff

+1 on using jackstands.

I too had learned of an acquaintance's death because of a failed jack, and that's enough to convince me for sure. I use jackstands every time I lift the car...

Indeed. Better safe than sorry. I had a jack fail 2 years ago with no jackstands under the car and it was ugly. Thankfully, no one was under the car at the time.

Originally Posted by neutron256

I've never heard of anyone dying changing a tire when the jack failed. Working under the car is a different story and I would never do that without jackstands.

Darwin smiles upon thee.

[Sleeperz]

For 1. I would jack up the car to unload some of the weight on the tire, not too much so the wheel turns when loosening the lugnuts, this is so the lugnuts turn easier.

All this extra safety procedures for lifting is OK if you want to be absolutely safe. But when changing tires one at a time as in the case of snows on another set of rims. I just lift the car one corner at a time just enough to get the tires on and off after blocking one other tire. The spare tire jack is strong enough to do that since your not lifting the whole car only up to 1/4 of the weight. With disc brakes I think you can have the E-brake on while changing the tires. These jacks fail if the car moves and the jack is at an angle not lifting straight up. For extra safety throw a tire underneath a central lifting spot if the height clearance is there. ?? tire is used cause its there but if you have a wood block all the better and don't lower the car onto the tire or block if it drops it will drop an inch or so if the jack flops over.
Your just pulling one tire off and immediately putting the other one on unless you want to do a brake inspection while the tire is off.


Also after driving around for ~100Km retorque the nuts.

Originally Posted by Want.FR-S

this is my idea, and I welcome if anyone can provide a better idea.

You change one tire at a time. The procedures are:

1. While tire is on the ground, loosen all the nuts but not totally unscrew them
2. Find the point to put jack stand for that wheel and jack up the car until the wheel is totally off the ground and a bit higher
3. Put the stand besides the jack and lower the jack so that the car can rest on the stand. Note this is where I prefer car jack. I can lower it gradually so no jerking around. With hydraulic jack, the release is sudden and it could hurt the stand or moving.
4. Now unscrew all the nuts and see if you can get the wheel off.
5. Put new tire on and screw the nuts based on the star Pattern. Just tie it enough.
6. Use car jack to lift it so that you can remove the stand and lower the car so that the tire touches the ground. With jack still on, tighten all the nuts based on the torque setting and with star pattern.
7. Once done lower the jack and move onto the next tire.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Want.FR-S

Torque wrench is used to tied up the nuts. When you want to loose it you need extra torque to loose it. Torque is made based on force times length. So if you do not have large force, you need length to create torque. Thus you need long breaker bar.

Thanks, I knew all that torque stuff, but I see now I misconstrued what a breaker bar is - I thought it was a torque wrench head extender that came out at right angles from the business end of the wrench, but checking again I see it's a totally separate tool.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Want.FR-S

3 ton lift is better because it can lift more with and higher. A 2 ton lift can probably lift 20 inches or so. It does not work with SUV or trucks.

It's 3 times the price though, and I don't need the added capacity for a 2700 lb car. The Michelin 2-ton lifts to 14 inches which will be more than enough.

[Sport-Tech]

Originally Posted by Want.FR-S

Just a quick reply. Cdn tire charge 40 bucks for seasonal tire change.

Thanks.

Anyone know if CT will torque the nuts to spec? From what I've read a lot of garages just use an air impact wrench and do no manual adjustment. These things seriously overtorque and can result in warped rotors giving you a pulsing feel when braking hard.