Fuel Additives

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

May be a bad plan unless they guarantee no ethanol - see http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4925

My understanding was that Chevron's 94 was with no ethanol, only their Techron additive and other formulation to get the 94 rating, while their other fuels have up to 10% ethanol because of government mandates. But I'll look into it to be sure. All the big-power engine guys that I know (drag-racing scene mostly) only use Chevron's 94 with zero issues so far.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Scion FR-S

May be a bad plan unless they guarantee no ethanol - see http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4925

Uh, ethanol is fine, fuel systems are designed for 10% ethanol. It gives you better power (marginally) too.

[Joe@Amsoil]

Fuel Additives are good when used correctly. There is always and will always be debate about it so here is my 2 cents on the matter.

I really consider there only 3 types of additives; Cleaners, Stabilizers and Boosters.

Cleaners are just as they sound for cleaning dirt and built up carbon deposits that reduce performance. Personally I would use cleaners for cars with higher miles so unless you drove your FT86 around the country 10 times your probably not going to need those anytime soon.

Stabilizers are for cars that are being stored or sitting for a some time. Gasoline breaks down and oxidizes which can lead to clogged injectors and sludge. Rust is also a big factor. My 2 cents, im a firm believer of stabilizers. I personally use it in my race car for storage over the winter. For you guys that will have this as your garage queen, i might look into using it.

Octane boosters is the last additive and probably the most controversial of them all. (Putting My Fire Jacket On) These are designed up obviously increase the octane of your fuel. Purpose being to reduces engine knock, improves ignition and engine response, helps fuel burn cleaner and inhibits corrosion. Now to each his own on if it works or not. My 2 cents I like to use it when im forced to get gas in lower grade stations that i know has crap gas.

So im not going to be pro or con against it.. you guys can figure out what you like or not.

Heres a link to all our fuel additives

http://www.amsoil.com/a/Fuel-Additiv...ver?zo=5001506

[86design]

Originally Posted by Joe@Amsoil

Fuel Additives are good when used correctly. There is always and will always be debate about it so here is my 2 cents on the matter.

I really consider there only 3 types of additives; Cleaners, Stabilizers and Boosters.

Cleaners are just as they sound for cleaning dirt and built up carbon deposits that reduce performance. Personally I would use cleaners for cars with higher miles so unless you drove your FT86 around the country 10 times your probably not going to need those anytime soon.

Stabilizers are for cars that are being stored or sitting for a some time. Gasoline breaks down and oxidizes which can lead to clogged injectors and sludge. Rust is also a big factor. My 2 cents, im a firm believer of stabilizers. I personally use it in my race car for storage over the winter. For you guys that will have this as your garage queen, i might look into using it.

Octane boosters is the last additive and probably the most controversial of them all. (Putting My Fire Jacket On) These are designed up obviously increase the octane of your fuel. Purpose being to reduces engine knock, improves ignition and engine response, helps fuel burn cleaner and inhibits corrosion. Now to each his own on if it works or not. My 2 cents I like to use it when im forced to get gas in lower grade stations that i know has crap gas.

So im not going to be pro or con against it.. you guys can figure out what you like or not.

Heres a link to all our fuel additives

http://www.amsoil.com/a/Fuel-Additiv...mance-Improver

case closed!!

[M-17]

Originally Posted by Joe@Amsoil

Fuel Additives are good when used correctly. There is always and will always be debate about it so here is my 2 cents on the matter.

I really consider there only 3 types of additives; Cleaners, Stabilizers and Boosters.

Cleaners are just as they sound for cleaning dirt and built up carbon deposits that reduce performance. Personally I would use cleaners for cars with higher miles so unless you drove your FT86 around the country 10 times your probably not going to need those anytime soon.

Stabilizers are for cars that are being stored or sitting for a some time. Gasoline breaks down and oxidizes which can lead to clogged injectors and sludge. Rust is also a big factor. My 2 cents, im a firm believer of stabilizers. I personally use it in my race car for storage over the winter. For you guys that will have this as your garage queen, i might look into using it.

Octane boosters is the last additive and probably the most controversial of them all. (Putting My Fire Jacket On) These are designed up obviously increase the octane of your fuel. Purpose being to reduces engine knock, improves ignition and engine response, helps fuel burn cleaner and inhibits corrosion. Now to each his own on if it works or not. My 2 cents I like to use it when im forced to get gas in lower grade stations that i know has crap gas.

So im not going to be pro or con against it.. you guys can figure out what you like or not.

Heres a link to all our fuel additives

http://www.amsoil.com/a/Fuel-Additiv...mance-Improver

+1

[JohnnyR]

I came in here to post about the great AMSOIL stuff. Saw I was beaten like a rented mule. "Cleaners" are not too bad a choice for those who have to deal with that crap winter blend fuel. I always run two tanks of cleaner after it's been confirmed the "winter blend" is done. Had great luck with that.

BTW - I'd also recommend AMSOIL for oil changes. You pay more, but you get more all around out of it. Others will argue that cheapo mobile-1 and stuff is just as good, but I've ran nothing through my Evo but that, and at 50k miles, it doesn't burn a drop, and the engine is still smooth running and starting, like new. So I'm sticking to it, and recommend it.

PS - Thankfully they shot down 15-20% Eth blend gases for now basically. I'd steer clear of that once it does come into the field if possible.

[mrtodd]

Originally Posted by Joe@Amsoil

Octane boosters is the last additive and probably the most controversial of them all. (Putting My Fire Jacket On) These are designed up obviously increase the octane of your fuel. Purpose being to reduces engine knock, improves ignition and engine response, helps fuel burn cleaner and inhibits corrosion. Now to each his own on if it works or not. My 2 cents I like to use it when im forced to get gas in lower grade stations that i know has crap gas.

So im not going to be pro or con against it.. you guys can figure out what you like or not.

Heres a link to all our fuel additives

http://www.amsoil.com/a/Fuel-Additiv...ver?zo=5001506

Joe, if you don't mind me asking, how is Amsoil's octane booster any different than all the other ones you see on the market? I'll tell you right now that I believe all octane booster fuel additives are a complete waste of money due to my own testing. Also, upon reading the fine print on the back of the bottle I usually notice something to the effect of "octane points increase based on treatment of one gallon". The only way to effectively boost the octane in your fuel with these products is to be adding 10+ bottles of it, which is ridiculously expensive.

An octance increase of 7 points with up to 15 gallons with only one 12oz bottle..? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong, I've used other Amsoil products in the past and I think they've been a good value, but I don't see this particular fuel additive as being one of them.

[Joe@Amsoil]

Originally Posted by JohnnyR

I came in here to post about the great AMSOIL stuff. Saw I was beaten like a rented mule. "Cleaners" are not too bad a choice for those who have to deal with that crap winter blend fuel. I always run two tanks of cleaner after it's been confirmed the "winter blend" is done. Had great luck with that.

BTW - I'd also recommend AMSOIL for oil changes. You pay more, but you get more all around out of it. Others will argue that cheapo mobile-1 and stuff is just as good, but I've ran nothing through my Evo but that, and at 50k miles, it doesn't burn a drop, and the engine is still smooth running and starting, like new. So I'm sticking to it, and recommend it.

PS - Thankfully they shot down 15-20% Eth blend gases for now basically. I'd steer clear of that once it does come into the field if possible.

Thanks Johnny for the recommendation! Nice to see a fellow Evo owner as well!

[mrtodd]

Joe, please respond to my comment above.

[Joe@Amsoil]

Originally Posted by mrtodd

Joe, if you don't mind me asking, how is Amsoil's octane booster any different than all the other ones you see on the market? I'll tell you right now that I believe all octane booster fuel additives are a complete waste of money due to my own testing. Also, upon reading the fine print on the back of the bottle I usually notice something to the effect of "octane points increase based on treatment of one gallon". The only way to effectively boost the octane in your fuel with these products is to be adding 10+ bottles of it, which is ridiculously expensive.

An octance increase of 7 points with up to 15 gallons with only one 12oz bottle..? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong, I've used other Amsoil products in the past and I think they've been a good value, but I don't see this particular fuel additive as being one of them.

Originally Posted by mrtodd

Joe, please respond to my comment above.

Hey MR Todd. Sorry for not responding earlier. I was down at Road Atlanta with Narra and the Viper GT guys on Saturday and over at ZMAX in Concord for the 4wides on Sunday.

On to your question. Our Amsoil octane boost is a more user friendly product then a lot of the others. Some of these other octane boosters require exact measurements or 20 bottles for a tank. Our Octane Booster is straight forward. 12oz bottle for 15 gallons of gas. We also do not have any solvents in our booster so its not going to destroy your fuel system. Im not sure where you got the 7 points for single bottle but were about 3-4 points. Perfect for the 93 octane car that gets caught in a 91 octane only state. Remember this isnt designed to turn 93 pump into 100 octane race gas. Its designed for race applications to bump up the octane levels a few points to help reduce pre-ignition.

[mrtodd]

Originally Posted by Joe@Amsoil

Hey MR Todd. Sorry for not responding earlier. I was down at Road Atlanta with Narra and the Viper GT guys on Saturday and over at ZMAX in Concord for the 4wides on Sunday.

On to your question. Our Amsoil octane boost is a more user friendly product then a lot of the others. Some of these other octane boosters require exact measurements or 20 bottles for a tank. Our Octane Booster is straight forward. 12oz bottle for 15 gallons of gas. We also do not have any solvents in our booster so its not going to destroy your fuel system. Im not sure where you got the 7 points for single bottle but were about 3-4 points. Perfect for the 93 octane car that gets caught in a 91 octane only state. Remember this isnt designed to turn 93 pump into 100 octane race gas. Its designed for race applications to bump up the octane levels a few points to help reduce pre-ignition.

Joe, thanks for the response. I got the 7 points straight from the Amsoil site...

Originally Posted by www.amsoil.com

Maximizes power and improves performance in all two-cycle and four-cycle gasoline engines. Increases octane number up to seven points. Reduces engine knock, improves ignition and engine response, helps fuel burn cleaner and inhibits corrosion. Recommended for off-road and racing use.

Seven points seems rather excessive on a full tank, and honestly even 3 points seems extreme, IMHO, considering it will take something like 15% toluene to do the same thing.

NOW - this seems to be the question of the day: what does Amsoil mean by "points", exactly? From my experience, in regards to octane boosters, points means a tenth of a point in the AKI (Anti-Knock Index, aka [RON+MON]/2 method). So for example, the 12-oz bottle *could* increase a full tank of 91 pump octane to 91.7, according to their claims...this sounds a little more reasonable.

I'm not trying to start an argument, nor am I questioning your credibility; but, I just don't think octane boosters are worth it from ANY company. IMHO, Xylene is the best bang for your buck, easiest to get a hold of, plus it doesn't absorb water like alcohols (ie hydroxy functional group attaching to H20 molecules, whereas Xylene, which is simply a benzene with two methyl groups, is all hydrocarbons just like regular gasoline, just substantially more stable due to the benzene ring) - add in about 10% and there's your 2-3 full octane points.

[ahausheer]

The thing with additives is that people don't understand the difference between correlation and causation. Just cause you put additives in you EVO and it is still running like a champ doesn't mean the additives did anything.

[mrtodd]

Originally Posted by ahausheer

The thing with additives is that people don't understand the difference between correlation and causation. Just cause you put additives in you EVO and it is still running like a champ doesn't mean the additives did anything.

[Joe@Amsoil]

Originally Posted by mrtodd

Joe, thanks for the response. I got the 7 points straight from the Amsoil site...



Seven points seems rather excessive on a full tank, and honestly even 3 points seems extreme, IMHO, considering it will take something like 15% toluene to do the same thing.

NOW - this seems to be the question of the day: what does Amsoil mean by "points", exactly? From my experience, in regards to octane boosters, points means a tenth of a point in the AKI (Anti-Knock Index, aka [RON+MON]/2 method). So for example, the 12-oz bottle *could* increase a full tank of 91 pump octane to 91.7, according to their claims...this sounds a little more reasonable.

I'm not trying to start an argument, nor am I questioning your credibility; but, I just don't think octane boosters are worth it from ANY company. IMHO, Xylene is the best bang for your buck, easiest to get a hold of, plus it doesn't absorb water like alcohols (ie hydroxy functional group attaching to H20 molecules, whereas Xylene, which is simply a benzene with two methyl groups, is all hydrocarbons just like regular gasoline, just substantially more stable due to the benzene ring) - add in about 10% and there's your 2-3 full octane points.

Oh no worries Mr Todd. Im not taking it as an argument. Im not here to try and convince anyone that Fuel Additives are must haves and everyone needs to have them or else their cars will implode. Im just here to provide information so that you the consumer can make an educated decision as to if you want to use them or not. You stated from the very beginning that you think they don't work and that is 100% ok with me. Everyone will have their own opinions about products. Some will swear by it, some will hate it. Thats the beauty of a forum, its a place to ask questions, state your opinions and find facts to make educated decisions.

As for your question its a great one. Im not sure why on the site it says up to 7 points when we see 3-4 points for 12oz to 15 gallons. Let me give a call over to our tech guys and drill down deeper into your questions.

And I 100% agree with you as will everyone else. The right thing to do is buy quality gas from the very beginning. As I had stated before, the octane booster is designed for race applications to prevent preignition.