Looming competition

[Anthony]

Visually, I'm trying to find one thing right with this car. Just one. It appears the tires are indeed made out of rubber, but I can't confirm that, so I won't count it just yet. Still looking...

Originally Posted by rpg1031

They aren't building a sports car, but a sporty car with "features" to improve efficiency but not make it any more like a sports car including making it RWD to go after those wanting a RWD.

Exactly. If there's one thing we need, it's more less. Much much more less. Give me some solid mechanical steering with no power steering, manual windows, no back seats, and a safety rating of "all drivers are considered already dead." 1,900lbs, 200hp, <$30,000 new. Not impossible.

Originally Posted by Frstorm

You can already get a camaro for 22k, how much cheaper do they want to go?

Haha that's what I was thinking. Hopefully they just meant a different lighter car, not so much concentration on being cheaper.

[BRZfan]

From the article:

"If GM decided to pull the trigger, it "would not do that design" seen on the code 130R because it's already dated, Reuss said."

Originally Posted by Zoti

It kind of looks like a BMW 1 series.

It will be interesting but in general, I think American cars suck.

[BRZfan]

Who buys a Camaro at $22000? If new, rare indeed. If used, yes. MSRP for Camaro is from $24,245 to $37035 depending upon model and options or no options at all. It would be interesting to know what the median average is.

Originally Posted by Frstorm

You can already get a camaro for 22k, how much cheaper do they want to go?

[BRZfan]

It took years of UAW diseases and will take some more years for the antidote to take effect.
.

Originally Posted by tacoss23

Yeah....no.

Of all the auto-makers that I would love to see "competition" coming from, GM is pretty much last. Right behind Chrysler.

Don't get me wrong, GM is trying, the new Corvette and the ATS are excellent vehicles. But look how long it took an American automaker to put a good product out there, 3 decades?

This is the company that took decisions such as: killing their EV program in 1998 in favor of more SUVs, the same year that Toyota started theirs (which resulted in the Prius).

It's still long ways for American automakers to catch up in this segment.

[BRZfan]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Exactly. If there's one thing we need, it's more less. Much much more less. Give me some solid mechanical steering with no power steering, manual windows, no back seats, and a safety rating of "all drivers are considered already dead." 1,900lbs, 200hp, <$30,000 new. Not impossible..

Agreed, it hasn't been done at least as far as I know, not Toyota, not Subaru. The demand is just not there for a 'bare bones' vehicle.

Also, see my post #16. The photo is out-of-date.

[BRZfan]

See Post #16.

Originally Posted by Zoti

It kind of looks like a BMW 1 series.

It will be interesting but in general, I think American cars suck.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by BRZfan

Agreed, it hasn't been done at least as far as I know, not Toyota, not Subaru. The demand is just not there for a 'bare bones' vehicle.

Also, see my post #16. The photo is out-of-date.

Originally Posted by BRZfan

See Post #16.

You may already know, but just in case you didn't, you can quote multiple people at once with the multi-quote button. Just a friendly FYI.

[Frstorm]

Brzfan- the Chevy dealer right now has one for 22k and one for 23k

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Exactly. If there's one thing we need, it's more less. Much much more less. Give me some solid mechanical steering with no power steering, manual windows, no back seats, and a safety rating of "all drivers are considered already dead." 1,900lbs, 200hp, <$30,000 new. Not impossible.

Originally Posted by BRZfan

Agreed, it hasn't been done at least as far as I know, not Toyota, not Subaru. The demand is just not there for a 'bare bones' vehicle.
[/SIZE][/B]

Agreed. While there are a few enthusiast that might buy a stripped down light weight vehicle it is a ultra small niche market. Look at the FR-S. It is one of the most minimalist vehicles available on the market today. Yet even on this forum there are constantly people crying for more features, like arm rest, push button start, LED, HID, dual level climate control, better sound system, NAV, Homelink, body kits etc etc.

There is a reason why Lotus is struggling to survive and has struggled to survive for years. Most consumers do not want a light, good performing car with limited weight adding creature comforts. Most consumers like all that heavy "cool" stuff.

Even cars like the FR-S are niche market cars with limited appeal to most drivers. Honestly, I do not see a lot of manufacturers jumping in to this segment because of the limited demand and the danger of diluting what market there is with several models thus causing all to become unprofitable.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Honestly, I do not see a lot of manufacturers jumping in to this segment because of the limited demand and the danger of diluting what market there is with several models thus causing all to become unprofitable.

While I agree with this, the selfish side of me would love to see a bunch of manufacturers jump into this small segment and eat into each other's profit margins. In the short run, we as consumers would see some great cars at low price points.

But looking at it from a long-term perspective, what we really need is for this segment to grow. We need to increase consumer demand for lightweight sports cars so that manufacturers will turn their attention towards it and regularly be able to turn profits in it.

[Draco-REX]

The proof will be in the pudding.

But I'm not holding my breath.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

We need to increase consumer demand for lightweight sports cars so that manufacturers will turn their attention towards it and regularly be able to turn profits in it.

Agreed. We need more tracks around the country. Where I live, the closest good track was about 4 hours away until the NOLA Motorsports Park opened last year. A lot of people still don't even realize it's there, but it is catching on.

Here in 'Murica!, most roads are long and straight and drag strips are a dime a dozen. The breeding ground to inspire the customer demand barely exists here.

Hopefully the existence of the FR-S/BRZ will help grow awareness and interest in autocross. I know for myself, I've known about autocross for many years, but I wasn't interested in it until now.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Agreed. We need more tracks around the country. Where I live, the closest good track was about 4 hours away until the NOLA Motorsports Park opened last year. A lot of people still don't even realize it's there, but it is catching on.

Here in 'Murica!, most roads are long and straight and drag strips are a dime a dozen. The breeding ground to inspire the customer demand barely exists here.

Hopefully the existence of the FR-S/BRZ will help grow awareness and interest in autocross. I know for myself, I've known about autocross for many years, but I wasn't interested in it until now.

Yeah agree, it would be amazing to have more tracks. You would think with all the land we have, there would be more. I'm lucky in some ways though. Within 2 hrs -- Summit Point Main and Shenandoah. Within 5 hrs -- NJMP, VIR, and Watkins Glen.

[Anthony]

I think NOLA cost $37,000,000 and they only made one of the two tracks they were supposed to. I'd build one myself, but I'll be happy just to have this little Scion paid off.

EDIT: And yes, you're very lucky. I'm making a terrible facial expression right now. Be aware it's directed toward you.