Am I the only one that thinks those waiting for 2015....

[snoflewis]

Originally Posted by zoomzoomers

But hey who knows? There are people who actually like Justin Beiber, so I guess anything is possible.

i can't believe im saying this but...better than miley cyrus

[DownFracture]

I'm guilty of chasing the unicorn with many things: phones, computers, work products. I always hated waiting but I would wait hoping for better things. This time when I found out the 2014 engine wasn't going to be updated, I just said screw it why wait possibly 2-3 years or never for an engine update. I then bought a 2013 and if an engine update comes some time in the future i'll trade it in for a new one. I will not be chasing the unicorn anymore, I want to enjoy it while I can!

[thill]

Originally Posted by zoomzoomers

I tend to agree with the OP. I've now lived with the BRZ Limited for a little over a year and to be completely honest, the car isn't a $33k - $36k car. If they put a larger motor/turbo/supercharger/etc. they'd have to upgrade the rest of the car and by doing so they'd put the car into a higher price point that the car just wasn't designed for IMHO. If they put in a higher output motor and price the car higher, that means that they'd have to upgrade of the rest of the car accordingly, i.e. the snowball effect. I just don't think as the car is now, it has what it takes, overall, to be that kind of car. To get it there just wouldn't make sense in my opinion.

But hey who knows? There are people who actually like Justin Beiber, so I guess anything is possible.

I guess I disagree here a little bit. I don't know what you mean by upgrade the rest of the car accordingly? I mean, I would expect an STi/TRD version to get more than just forced induction or a larger motor, similar to an SRi WRX, you would most likely get upgraded wheels and tires, some suspension modifications, etc.

There is no other sub 2800lbs sports coupe that I am aware of that would have the handling, center of gravity, etc that would offer over 250hp or so from the manufacturer. A 250-300hp BRZ/FR-S would be in a class by itself under $35K even.

[snoflewis]

Originally Posted by thill

There is no other sub 2800lbs sports coupe that I am aware of that would have the handling, center of gravity, etc that would offer over 250hp or so from the manufacturer. A 250-300hp BRZ/FR-S would be in a class by itself under $35K even.

i would agree with you that it would pretty much be in a class by itself in terms of what the car is, but how many people would by a $35k scion or subaru? my question applies more to scions because of the brand and since they're selling exponentially more FRS cars than subaru is for BRZs.

this is obviously a niche car, and i do think that bigger/better option will be available maybe as a factory upgarde, but that will ultimately hit the buyer harder than anybody. could be a hit or miss in terms of value, but people would buy it because there's nothing like it on the market right now as you mentioned.

although i must add....seeing that BRZ tS and imagining a subaru turbo on it...

[thill]

Originally Posted by snoflewis

i would agree with you that it would pretty much be in a class by itself in terms of what the car is, but how many people would by a $35k scion or subaru? my question applies more to scions because of the brand and since they're selling exponentially more FRS cars than subaru is for BRZs.

this is obviously a niche car, and i do think that bigger/better option will be available maybe as a factory upgarde, but that will ultimately hit the buyer harder than anybody. could be a hit or miss in terms of value, but people would buy it because there's nothing like it on the market right now as you mentioned.

although i must add....seeing that BRZ tS and imagining a subaru turbo on it...

I can't speak for Scion, and I think Scion would have to price their car in the $29-31K MSRP range with a more stripped down base model that you can add options to.

On the Subaru front, MSRP on a WRX STi starts at $37,065.

So people are well over $30K for a Subaru now. I think both Subaru and Toyota would have a limited production runs on the higher output FR-S and BRZ models and would most likely there would be waiting lists. Just like the WRX STi. Here in the midwest, there is usually a waiting list of at least 4-8 weeks to get one.

[tacoss23]

They will be disappointed.

I really don't think that's going to happen, not in this generation of GT-86. Next generation for sure, but it doesn't make sense at all for them to develop and implement an entire new powertrain (let alone change the boxer for inline) in mid cycle of a new platform that is selling like hotcakes and is very much praised by everyone.

It will happen, just not this generation. I could bet my job that these comments from "toyota high ranking executive" are the same BS that was around last year with the speculations of a turbocharged STI-BRZ, by "Subaru high ranking executive".

[zoomzoomers]

Originally Posted by thill

I guess I disagree here a little bit. I don't know what you mean by upgrade the rest of the car accordingly? I mean, I would expect an STi/TRD version to get more than just forced induction or a larger motor, similar to an SRi WRX, you would most likely get upgraded wheels and tires, some suspension modifications, etc.

There is no other sub 2800lbs sports coupe that I am aware of that would have the handling, center of gravity, etc that would offer over 250hp or so from the manufacturer. A 250-300hp BRZ/FR-S would be in a class by itself under $35K even.

I'm not just referring to the bigger/better wheels/brakes/etc. I meant the rest of the car, like the interior. The way it is now, the car's interior wouldn't be able to compete with cars in the $35k category and would need a healthy redesign and upgrade making it even more expensive and therefore pricing itself out of the competition. I mean seriously, you can get a BMW 328i or a MB C250 for that price and the difference is too vast if you ask me.

[whaap]

If something comes along in the future that I like better I will buy it. In the meantime I certainly enjoy my FR-S. Live in the present, not in the future. Another way of putting it: so many cars, so little time.

[strat61caster]

They will be disappointed, hell I think over the lifecycle of this car (~8+ years) the people holding out for more power or lighter weight will be disappointed.

Cars generally get heavier and duller as the edge gets taken off to appeal to a broader audience, everything from the 911 to the MR2 to the GTI, to the Mustang to the Integra. Sure the 2016 might have 20 more horsepower, it'll probably weigh another hundred pounds and come with crap like "heated mirrors standard!" "free trunk mat!"

Very happy I didn't wait, even more so when I saw the new scion head unit

[DeepHunta]

Key word is "rumor".

How do we take rumors? With a grain of salt. Until we hear something from official Scion or Subaru peeps, then these are just rumors.

If true that there is no power increase, just add your own power.

I'm planning to slap on a supercharger once Subaru confirms no real STI version.

[thill]

Originally Posted by zoomzoomers

I'm not just referring to the bigger/better wheels/brakes/etc. I meant the rest of the car, like the interior. The way it is now, the car's interior wouldn't be able to compete with cars in the $35k category and would need a healthy redesign and upgrade making it even more expensive and therefore pricing itself out of the competition. I mean seriously, you can get a BMW 328i or a MB C250 for that price and the difference is too vast if you ask me.

A 328 or C250 is just a different car than a 250-300hp twin. It is not a lightweight sports car.

If you are looking for more of a luxury sedan, then the BRZ/FR-S should not even be on your list.

[snoflewis]

Originally Posted by thill

I can't speak for Scion, and I think Scion would have to price their car in the $29-31K MSRP range with a more stripped down base model that you can add options to.

On the Subaru front, MSRP on a WRX STi starts at $37,065.

So people are well over $30K for a Subaru now. I think both Subaru and Toyota would have a limited production runs on the higher output FR-S and BRZ models and would most likely there would be waiting lists. Just like the WRX STi. Here in the midwest, there is usually a waiting list of at least 4-8 weeks to get one.

to be honest, i can't really imagine a $30k scion, not with the majority of toyota passenger cars being below that price point.

and for subaru, the issue is not price as much as it is market. for one, the majority of subaru buyers are looking for something that the BRZ does not offer. most of the market for the BRZ is going to be where there is no need for AWD. we see that with the dealerships now. BRZs being marked up in price because each dealer is getting a few at a time and selling them in a few days. whereas the dealerships in colorado are getting them in boatloads and still selling them off. but where are they selling them? most of them are having them shipped because the local subaru dealers are marking up prices.

i can definitely see another model trim of the ft86 for either company happening. however, for those waiting out because the twins that we have now are going to receive a power boost, i think they're going to be disappointed.

part of what makes the twins attractive to buyers is the price point. it's affordable with a great platform. Tada did say that he wants the FT86 to be like the Mini lineup with versatile offerings, and that does make sense, just like how Minis have the base, S, and JCW lines. but with that is an increase in price and possible entrance to a whole different market of buyers

[Turbowned]

I'm glad I bought the '13; it's brilliant, it's gorgeous, and it drives better than anything else on the market under $50k! If a better/faster one comes out in 2015, I'll put mine back to stock and trade it up for the '15 if nothing else catches my fancy by then!

[thill]

Originally Posted by snoflewis

to be honest, i can't really imagine a $30k scion, not with the majority of toyota passenger cars being below that price point.

and for subaru, the issue is not price as much as it is market. for one, the majority of subaru buyers are looking for something that the BRZ does not offer. most of the market for the BRZ is going to be where there is no need for AWD. we see that with the dealerships now. BRZs being marked up in price because each dealer is getting a few at a time and selling them in a few days. whereas the dealerships in colorado are getting them in boatloads and still selling them off. but where are they selling them? most of them are having them shipped because the local subaru dealers are marking up prices.

i can definitely see another model trim of the ft86 for either company happening. however, for those waiting out because the twins that we have now are going to receive a power boost, i think they're going to be disappointed.

part of what makes the twins attractive to buyers is the price point. it's affordable with a great platform. Tada did say that he wants the FT86 to be like the Mini lineup with versatile offerings, and that does make sense, just like how Minis have the base, S, and JCW lines. but with that is an increase in price and possible entrance to a whole different market of buyers

I think your perspective of the way Subaru has marked these cars up is somewhat unique to your area. In most states, they are not being marked up, and many of us were able to buy well below MSRP.

I think you have to put into perspective how many of these cars we are talking about. Between Subaru and Scion we are talking less than 30K total FR-S and BRZ's being sold in the US this year. IF they make 10% of the cars a higher output model, that is only 3K cars per year. If you take a BRZ Limited now, for instance, and add FI, tires, wheels, additional suspension, etc. You are well into the $33-35K+ range.

Could a $30K+ Scion be a tough sale? Maybe, but again, to get a lighweight RWD new sports coupe with this kind of handling, that would make close to 300hp you are talking Porsche Cayman and those are almost double the price of a $30K Scion... There is not much else... Unless you go used...

The case could be made right now that there are higher horsepower RWD coupes and FWD hot hatches out there that have more amenenties, more HP, etc, than the FRZ, yet many of us are not looking for a heavy GT style sports car (some of us even came from one of these for this car). Or a FWD hot hatch. We bought the FRZ for a reason. Adding some more power but keeping all the characteristics of the car (low COG, handling, driver feel, cockpit, etc) is just icing on the cake. Maybe I am in the minority for saying I would be willing to pay $34K+ for a BRZ or $30-31K for an FRS that gave me that extra 10% I am looking for. I don't think so though....